Britain is as Bad ,or Worse than ,Israel: British Oppression

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

OMG the squirming on this thread is ridiculous.

Read what I posted please, not what you think I meant.

I said that if I disagreed with a countries past and present ethics as much as you do I would relocate

How on earth you can twist that into me telling you that you should leave?

The phrase could have been
"If I disagreed with a country's past and present ethics I would leave"- the "as much as you do" is a personal reference that implies you mean. I should do so.

Perhaps you didn't mean it. I can accept that. Perhaps you don't understand implication just as you don't understand apostrophes and plurals.

I never resort to pointing out posters grammatical errors.

If it makes you feel better and/or superior so be it.

Not superior, it just mildly amuses me.
I'll freely admit, it is shallow.
But I only sink to low levels when that seems to be the way the thread is going. Denying responsibility for something isn't something I do.

What about reparations for the families who lost husbands and sons, fighting on the high seas to stop slavery. I don't think we owe anybody anything. Our country put an end to slavery at a massive financial cost, which we have only recently paid off. England is one of the most tolerant countries in the world.

Fairycakes

What about reparations for the families who lost husbands and sons, fighting on the high seas to stop slavery. I don't think we owe anybody anything. Our country put an end to slavery at a massive financial cost, which we have only recently paid off. England is one of the most tolerant countries in the world.

Hear, hear.

I endorse Glorianny:I "wondered about him not apologising. I think I heard the reason was because the atrocities were not committed by this generation. But weren't the atrocities committed in the name of the state? And doesn't Charles represent the state? So any apology would not be a personal one but one on behalf of the state which does not change from one generation to the next but is a constant. He should have apologised and reparation should be made."

Hear hear indeed, Baggs. Every working/tax paying person in this country helped pay the staggering debt taken on by the Government in 1823, which was finally cleared in 2015. Do we ever hear about this? Of course not. It's something far too positive about Britain.

LovesBach

Hear hear indeed, Baggs. Every working/tax paying person in this country helped pay the staggering debt taken on by the Government in 1823, which was finally cleared in 2015. Do we ever hear about this? Of course not. It's something far too positive about Britain.

You do know that that money did not go to the slaves, or the families of slaves, but to the slave owners who had already made fortunes through owning and trading in people. How was it positive? It did nothing for those who had been traded, enslaved, moved from their homelands and mistreated.

Because they were finally free.

Fairycakes

Because they were finally free.

Oh I see they were meant to say "thank you" because the people who had bought and sold them were compensated by the government and had to release them.
Isn't that a bit like stealing the family silver and expecting granny to cough up to get it back??

We had to purchase them from the slave owners. The owners were not just going to set them free on our say so.

It's the same concept as when donkeys are mistreated abroad and charities rescue them. The charities have to compensate the owner for the loss of the animal. The owner is not simply going to hand it over freely

If one country pays reparations then doing so could possibly trigger a tsunami of similar. Some crimes against humanity such as the genocides that have been committed against various races are too overwhelming to put a price on. Reparations can break a country look what The Treaty of Versailles did to Germany and what flew out of that Pandora's Box. The King is only a figure head maybe he can publically express regret of how a previous government behaved but anything else is beyond his remit. Tony Blair was prone to apologising on behalf of the cointry for sins of the past and then his government invades another on a bogus premise. Why do so many appear to obsess over a past that cannot be changed, slavery is still a thing in many parts of the world which doesn't seem to garner the same outrage.

And no one to my knowledge has ever asked to be thanked. However, it wouldn't hurt for certain people to bear it in mind next time they want to have a go at us. If it wasn't for the English, they might still be in slavery to this day.

And remember that many English were also slaves. The Barbary pirates used to sail into coastal villages and take the inhabitants. One village lost all the males - from little boys to old men.

Fairycakes

We had to purchase them from the slave owners. The owners were not just going to set them free on our say so.

You do understand that these slave owners were British and the act of 1833 made slavery illegal in Britain and her colonies. The act said they had to set them free. So what you are saying is the slave owners would have broken the law.

Caleo

I endorse Glorianny:I "wondered about him not apologising. I think I heard the reason was because the atrocities were not committed by this generation. But weren't the atrocities committed in the name of the state? And doesn't Charles represent the state? So any apology would not be a personal one but one on behalf of the state which does not change from one generation to the next but is a constant. He should have apologised and reparation should be made."

The Mau Mau were hardly sweetness and light y’know.

Nana8 wrote: And the Aboriginals - we have apologised to them for things done hundreds of years ago by people very few are descended from. Most people who came here in the early days simply didn’t want to come here. Only a few were involved in dreadful massacres but we are all responsible apparently. Some of my ancestors had their lands confiscated because of their religion- maybe I should seek an apology and reparation?"

Nana, none of us is responsible for any historical injustices . The injustices I speak of are happening now, in Kenya. The perpetrators are multi national companies who are the financial beneficiaries of the hugely successful British empire.

Fertile lands in Kenya, stolen long ago , are still being farmed for the profit of foreigners . Multi -national marketing works so that native labourers often subjected to dangerous working conditions and nobody is held to account.

Portugal was the most prolific European slave trading nation, transporting millions to Brazil.

African Nations sold their own people, perhaps they should be paying reparations?

GrannyGravy13

Portugal was the most prolific European slave trading nation, transporting millions to Brazil.

African Nations sold their own people, perhaps they should be paying reparations?

So it's come down to It wasn't just us it was them as well!
Aren't we supposed to have better values?

Nothing wrong with my values, if I make an error I apologise, wouldn’t expect my AC, GC, GGC etc to be held responsible and have to compensate for any alleged wrongdoing.

If reparations are going to be paid by one Country, then they should be paid by all. It could keep human rights lawyers in business, then again shouldn’t they be improving the here and now as opposed to focusing on the past…

Glorianny

Fairycakes

We had to purchase them from the slave owners. The owners were not just going to set them free on our say so.

You do understand that these slave owners were British and the act of 1833 made slavery illegal in Britain and her colonies. The act said they had to set them free. So what you are saying is the slave owners would have broken the law.

How do you think the Act of 1833 got through Parliament? There were many MP's and Lords who owned slaves so there had to be a sweetener hence the repayments. Shameful, I agree but at least slaves were free.

Aren't we supposed to have better values?
🤔 Those were the values of the time.

We have moved on since then. Lessons have been learned.

GrannyGravy That is why Portuguese is the most widely spoken language in the Southern Hemisphere.

Caleo

I endorse Glorianny:I "wondered about him not apologising. I think I heard the reason was because the atrocities were not committed by this generation. But weren't the atrocities committed in the name of the state? And doesn't Charles represent the state? So any apology would not be a personal one but one on behalf of the state which does not change from one generation to the next but is a constant. He should have apologised and reparation should be made."

Oh no they shouldn't. All long dead,no one of African descent alive in the U K had experienced slavery. Although they may have done from their fellow Africans.
Now in Africa itself ,that's a different matter, Tuareg still keep slaves, Libya deal in slaves. As for the Barbery pirates, shall the ancestors of that slavery get reparations because their long dead ancestors were stolen from these shores, and Ireland and sol into slavery. Did you know the whole population of Gozo, in the med, were taken for slaves by Barbery pirates. Move along, boring now.

Had the Government spent possibly years arguing the toss, people would still have been enslaved. The payments set them free - and quickly. I thought that might be distasteful to those who will never see anything good in the best of efforts - a bitter verbal leitmotif running throughout the posts.

What about the way we were also treated by the wealthy in this country? Little children made to work in factories or on ships, or lowered down chimneys at the age of three or four. Women working in factories with babies strapped to their backs, or making matches and having the sulphur literally melt their faces over time. Perhaps their families should also be compensated? Where does it end? But I am certainly not being held responsible for something I didn't do. My ancestors were miners, not gentry. They had no say in regard to slavery and were mistreated themselves. What is really required is forgiveness, not resentment and apportioning blame.

Let's be clear about the apology that was being asked for. It was not for slavery. It was for the actions of the British in the 1950s when a Kenyan group trying to gain independence (named the Mau-Mau by us) were wrongfully imprisoned, tortured and killed by the British.
I remember the news when I was a child. This was a dreadful period in the history of Kenya and the King should have apologised. He may not have been Head of State but his mother was. And the apology is not personal it is for the actions of the British state.
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/oct/31/king-charles-asked-for-unequivocal-apology-by-kenya-human-rights-commission#:~: