Canon Andrew Hindley

I heard most of the programme on the radio this morning. It became clear why this man was so difficult to deal with.

Canon HIndley is clearly a very clever and very manipulative man. All the young men he was accused of having relations with flatly denied it and although rumours spread and reports were made they were all impossible to prove at any level that could get near prosecution requirements.

Also as an openly gay cleric in a rather conservative diocese, he kept playing the homophobia card, saying that all these aaccusations arose because those opposing him equated being homosexual with being a paedophile which was prejudice. He would threaten legal action if anything was done and those dealing with him faced the problem of damaging legal cases that they might well lose.

I really began to understand the problem the church had with dealing with this man. His victims denied everything, his power in his role as sacristan, effective cathedral managing director, gave him power over a lot of people dependent on him for their jobs or ability to get future jobs, a power he clearly had no problem in using to his advantage. The church concerned about legal action that might reinforce Canon Hindley's presentation of himself as a homosexual man suffering from unjust discrimination and rejection by a conservative hierarchy.

At the end of the programme while not defending everything the church authorities did - they at times acted foolishly and carelessly and spoilt their own case - i did understand the real problem they had dealing with this very difficult and clever man and his behaviour.

Thanks for explaining Monica.
I'm surprised his victims protected him and I hope the C of E can change the way they deal with employment in future to put better protection in place for their congregation and themselves.

A hierachical system with men at the top.

That’s an excellent summary MOnica. It’s good to see your analytical understanding of the difficulties faced by employers and Police/CpS in prosecuting in these circumstances.

That's interesting, thanks Monica, the threat of 'discrimination' is often used to shut down safe guarding. I mean in regards to a range of characteristics not particularly sexuality.

Cadeby

A hierachical system with men at the top.

Basically says it all.

And yet so many vicars are women these days? Can't get the staff?

OnwardandUpward- maybe women priests are better ... and maybe some of the issues raised here might be tackled more effectively by a woman. We can but hope.

There are more women than men in teaching, social work, family law, nursing, general practice and more. Women are joining engineering, science, tech etc in increasing numbers. Apologies if this generalisation irritates -I’m a 1970’s feminist but it’s not changed , females are drawn to caring professions. The CoE had to accept female vicars. I heard a male vicar friend complaining recently about the difficulty men had in becoming Bishops because the women got these prestigious posts 😇

A teacher was once sacked from a school my children attended because his paedophile tendencies became apparent. Shortly after, the local cathedral employed him in a role which meant he was in regular close contact with the choir boys. So their recruitment procedures lacked important safeguards. I was friends with the organist and able to give him the history. The man was removed.
The CofE does not have a good track record on these matters ... nor indeed the RC.

I agree about the CofE and RC organisationally being poor on safeguarding. They may be the ones we hear most about but the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mosques are imo good at keeping authorities at bay. It’s rather like the power the Catholic Church had historically.

Iam, I have to dispute that. Things have improved dramatically in the RC religion in Scotland, with national protocols and training. Every parish and Diocese follow the same, mandatory procedures.
At least once a year and often more, clergy and Parish Safeguarding officers have to attend mandatory training. P.V.Gs are renewed every three years for those working in regulated work with children and vulnerable children and it is not a box ticking exercise. It is quite onerous, but essential.
Once a year, we all have to attend the National Safeguarding Conference, where more training is delivered and delegates have an opportunity to express concerns or have queries answered. Also, it is live streamed, so that those unable to physically, can still attend.

Its an interesting thing , safeguarding. I have recently stopped volunteering at a centre. I reported a concern and never heard anything. Also I am able to slip in and out of the building undetected.

I fear you can have all the systems you like in place but things can still go wrong.

Apologies for wandering off topic.

Marydoll, perhaps I should have said ‘historically’ but the reality is that despite what may be good safeguarding policy and practices, abuse continues. Abusers are often charming, likeable and persuasive - as was the headteacher in our school. People still find it hard to believe someone they know, like and respect can be responsible for abuse.
I delivered safeguarding training. -on one occasion with a man later convicted of sexual abuse of children. He hid it well.

Exactly this. They are devious, manipulative and cunning. Sadly, despite all we do, there will always be those who fool us.

So true about abusers being charming, likeable and persuasive. I don't know why people are so trusting as many times even someone's own wife does not know the level of depravity or the bottom falls out of her world when she finds out.

One I can think of, went to "a lot of church meetings" but later admitted to cruising graveyards for s** or picking up prostitutes, so his poor wife was forced to get tested for STD's. She had stayed home innocently bringing up the kids, believing he was at a church meeting, for years and everyone believed the front he showed them (which of course they wanted to see). The prostitute addiction was a reason they were so short of money...He was not willing to change or admit it was wrong. Although they had regular s** , he blamed her for his addiction.

Unfortunately over the years I've met a lot of these men in churches, seen and heard a lot, so I don't take things at face value. I keep an open mind and give the benefit of the doubt, but I've always got one foot out the door (if I went into a church in the first place, that is!)

This case shows religion and spirituality are not the same.

Onward and Upward, so true. Religion has this to be said of it------how else may we keep alive the message of Jesus .

Perhaps even faith and religion are not the same.

I've known people who looked like they were "all in" on a Sunday and living a life of depravity the rest of the week.

Caleo

Onward and Upward, so true. Religion has this to be said of it------how else may we keep alive the message of Jesus .

A message is not just words because actions will always speak louder.

Someone may forget what you said, but they will always remember how you made them feel.

How may we keep alive the message of Jesus? By being like him and asking WWJD?

Look at how someone treats the waiter, or the lowest in society and you will know which message they want to share.

Interestingly, many of the women who have recently been given jobs by the C of E are not vicars, but "Priests in Charge" , which means they do not have the freehold which gave Canon Andrew Hindley his security.

These recently employed women have little job security and very little pay. A Priest in Charge legally is a Curate and not a Vicar. So it seems like women who are new to the profession are being mugged off because of what men have done. They have all of the risk and all of the stress with no power and no guarantee of long term employment.

It is nothing new sadly, how does religion consistantly get away with it, what would the gentle jesus say? Some of us are force fed religion at a young age, there lies the roots of cognitive dissonance.I was raised catholic with a bishop and cardinal in the extended family, what chance did i have? It has taken me a long time to realise what religion is, very wrong......

There must be good people who are Christians. Actually I know this to be true particularly the SA.

But all this pomp and robes and strange hierarchy lends itself to mis use somehow. How did it change from humble beginnings to this? ( rhetorical)
I feel the God shaped hole and would love to be part of a caring community but I can't reconcile myself to some of the teachings and behaviours.

Paedophiles choose professions that enable them to access children. The most persistent and incorrigible paedophiles are incapable of having relationships with adults.

For this reason they will choose professions like religious organisation because it is possible to be single without comment and most people have an automatic trust in someone who claims to have given their life to God and it will be made easy for them to access children and be trusted by parent and child alike.

But religions wouldn't exist if people did not belong to them and that means their adherents and oranisers are ordinary mortals and prone to all the failings that all mortals have. Individually they can be selfish, proud, power-hungry, homo phobic, mysoginist, just like anyone else. On the other hand they attract people who are truly good, even saintly, and I have known several such.

I was brought up a catholic - and I still am (sort of) but I have always been able to see through the organisation to the person behind it all, Jesus Christ and his teachings as written in the gospel. (not the old testament) aand found that they were a good template for good living.

I do not agree that pedophiles choose the careers which give them access to children, this rules out pedophiles in building trade, chefs, army, navy, airforce, refuge collection, painters and decorators, tailors, to name a few.

The media go wild if a priest, celebrity, etc is arrested , not if a
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