Repeal of fox hunting

Ah but they aren't repealing it they are only 'amending' it ...

We live in a small town and our neighbours have chickens. The foxes try to kill them all. No sympathy for the foxes from me.

A repeal is not proposed but an amendment to bring the law in England and Wales into line with the law in Scotland, which apparently allows the use of more dogs to "flush out" foxes which are then shot.

Of course they try to kill chickens Liz they are predators

I do wonder how people would react if people in towns hunted them with packs of dogs and allowed them to be torn apart in full view? I agree with whitewave.

80% of the people in the UK also agree with the ban. That leaves 20%. How many of these actually hunt? I would suggest a tiny minority. Democracy has to win the day.

But as thatbags has pointed out, there isn't/wasn't a ban. Hunting with dogs is still legal, it's just that the number of dogs was curtailed by the Act introduced by Blair.

Not sure of your point ana?

You said '80% of the people in the UK also agree with the ban.'

There is no ban.

If you mean that 80% of the population would agree with a complete ban on fox hunting, that's a different matter and not one under consideration by the government.

And I should add, not by the Labour government either.

OK ana as you wish.

Perhaps you should have made it clearer in your OP what the matter under discussion was? It's not only me who is confused.

Tracey Crouch Tory sports minister is leading Tory colleagues to vote against the amendment . S he along with other Tories recognises that public opinion is vastly against it. "People have moved on from this "
With luck then and a fair wind this will not get through.

did we have a referendum on fox-hunting with dogs ?
who says 80% are in favour of a ban ?
personally as a rural dweller I dislike the nouveau riche with their horses and arrogant attitude (they can go where they like over the farmers field) who are today's hunt supporters (I doubt they catch many foxes anyway)
but foxes are vicious predators who kill lambs, cats as well as chickens. If any of you have ever seen the aftermath of a fox attack (animals killed but not eaten - it is just carnage) you will not view them as cuddly fluffy animals.
For me the ban should stay as it is without amendment even if Scotland have a differant rule.

I don't see foxes as cuddly fluffy animals but as animals with a right to live. Please don't let anyone pretend fox hunting is a way of controlling the fox population. It's what it has always been - an excuse for people to dress up and ride their horses across country in an exciting chase. Foxes are still being bred and protected for that very purpose, despite the ban. I agree with whitewave that there is something creepy about anyone who can watch a live animal being torn apart for entertainment.

Yes, and they can still dress up and ride the horses across the country in drag hunting. But then there would be no 'kill' so that would take half their pleasure away or they wouldn't be trying to overturn the ban

exactly- I really do resent the way fox hunters talk about antis as 'townies who do not understand'! Many of us are country born and bread and know quite a lot about foxes, their behaviour and also about husbandry.

Foxes do an excellent job of cleaning up the countryside of all sort of vermin and the huge number of damaging rabbits. The % loss of lambs is more or less the same in areas where foxes are non existent- and most losses are due to poor husbandry and the encouragement of multiple births, where the run of the litter is weaker and remains unprotected. That is not to say foxes do not take young lambs, even healthy ones on rare occasions- but the great majority of lambs taken are the weak, dead or dying. Most deaths are due to extreme weather conditions.

The real problems with foxes are in town- and the culprits are HUMAN - lots of food waste and litter, and also those that feed foxes. Feedng foxes in town encourages larger litters too. Research by Bristol university shows clearly that foxes are very good at controlling their own numbers- if food is plentifull, all vixens will breed and have large litters. When food is scarce, only the top vixens will breed and have 1 or 2 cubs.

I was against the hunting ban to begin with because of the possible impact on rural economy. I don't go along with the image of arrogant toffs tearing across farmers' fields. Hunting was far more planned and organised than that and hunts were invited to ride across farms where headlands, woodland and farm tracks were carefully managed to accommodate them.

We've moved on from those days though and I don't think it would be wise of any government to attempt to turn back the clock. Easy for me to say though because we don't live in a livestock farming area.

As granjura says the real problem with foxes is in towns and cities thanks to misguided so called animal lovers feeding them.

The ban is ignored, hunts are still riding to hounds and foxes being torn to bits, no animal should be hunted by a pack of baying hounds and and horses with riders plus the racket of the hunting horn. The fox is so pumped with adrenaline it becomes an exhausted, quivering heap . And cubbing is too horrific to speak of , I have seen vixens trying to defend their cubs and watched the excitement on the faces of the hunters , the cheering and horn blowing when a child is daubed in blood . The hounds are killed by the age of approx seven years , they cannot be housed as pets. Anyone who believes a pack of hounds can hunt to the kill then obey commands to stand back for the fox to be shot needs to follow a hunt . I was a hunt sabatour for years , the scream of the fox haunts you, the excitement on the faces of the huntsmen and followers sickens you. Fox hunting does not decrease the fox population , it's a sport no different to cock or dog fighting , purely for the pleasure of man

AB are you sure it is so widely ignored - your description was the 'old way' of hunting.
I grew up on a farm and believe me the hunt did not respect hedges, crops in the fields or tracks. My father as a farmer in the 50s and 60s would always try and send the hounds in the wrong direction if he could. At that time it was not possible to stop the hunt as they had 'the right' to trespass.

FYI - I have seen what foxes can do to other animals who also had a right to live. So if you read my post you will see I support the ban (I would also favour a ban on rearing grouse and other game birds for sport - but that is another topic on which I am sure there are differing opinions).

How can the hunters argue that the fox needs to be culled when foxes are bred especially for the hunt.

Are you saying that because foxes kill other animals that makes them somehow bad grannyonce? I don't understand that logic. I know you said you are against the ban but I still don't understand why you are expressing some sort of moral disapproval of foxes. Many animals kill other animals. No other species kills so many or so often for no good reason as the human species.

grannyonce, if the ban was effective why do hunts still have large packs of hounds ten years after the flushing out of the fox with two hounds became law. There is no such thing as the old way of hunting , nothing has changed . The police ignore reports of hunts because of position of some taking part .

Shall we kill cats because they prey on birds

I did not say I was against the ban - if you read my post.
as a vegetarian - I hope very few if any animals are killed for me.
I know animals kill other animals but the fox is a particularly vicious predator - sometimes killing but not eating what it has killed. So to me that makes them vermin.