Repeal of fox hunting

AB - I was asking a question that is all - is it widely ignored? - in my neck of the woods it is not ignored but I don't know about Wales or Scotland.
why am I being attacked
I said I supported the ban - [sigh]

G1 foxes do what foxes do. Saying that they are vicious killers puts a value judgement on their nature, which doesn't make sense.

Cats kill without eating their prey, too, and injure without killing. My neighbour has a wildllife pond which was full of frogs of all sizes. A new cat in the neighbourhood has started catching and maiming them, and leaving them lying around undead but past recovery. It is the nature of the beast. We keep cats and love them, we hate foxes and kill them.

grannyonce, you were not attacked, I was discussing the topic with you, I understood you are against it

Sorry grannyonce I meant to say I know you said you are against repealing the ban, not against the ban. I still don't follow the argument for judging animals for doing what animals do.

I'm not sure G1 is still around. I hope she reconsiders and stays on GN

Liz46, which measures have your neighbours taken to protect their chickens? We lost our pet chickens to a vixen one Spring (she had young to feed- and we mothers and grand-mothers know we would do almost anything to feed our loved ones) - but although we cried buckets as our hens were true pets with names and marked personalities- we never blamed the vixen, only ourselves for poor husbandry and care- as we forgot to close the hen-house one night.

The Hunting Act 2004[1]
Parliament of the United Kingdom
Long title An Act to make provision about hunting wild mammals with dogs; to prohibit hare coursing; and for connected purposes.
Citation 2004 c 37
Territorial extent England and Wales[2]
Dates
Royal Assent 18 November 2004
Commencement 18 February 2005[3]
Text of statute as originally enacted
Revised text of statute as amended

The Hunting Act 2004 (c 37) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which bans the hunting of wild mammals (notably foxes, deer, hares and mink) with dogs in England and Wales; the Act does not cover the use of dogs in the process of flushing out an unidentified wild mammal,[4] nor does it affect drag hunting, where hounds are trained to follow an artificial scent.[5]

The Act came into force on 18 February 2005. The pursuit of foxes with hounds, other than to flush out to be shot, was banned in Scotland two years earlier by the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002. Such hunting remains legal in Northern Ireland.
This would be very difficult to police.
On Wednesday, 15th July 2015, the current Conservative Government are proposing Amendments to the Act, after realising they had only a slender chance of Repealing it. The Amendments will be voted upon by a Free Vote, after just one hour's Debate in the House of Commons. One of the key Amendments is the flushing out of foxes, in order for them to be shot to death. Whilst this might sometimes stop the foxes suffering from being ripped apart by hounds, it is not reasonable that the hounds would not sometimes attack the foxes, especially having previously been trained to do so. Also, more importantly, the majority of English and Welsh MPs have previously decided that "such activity does result in unnecessary suffering."
So that's what is going on. I'm not much the wiser.

www.viva.org.uk/huntingban

The argument that the pro-hunt people use is that foxes are predators that kill livestock and their numbers must be kept down.

In the Independent in June was this report:

"..............Undercover filming has revealed 16 foxes being kept in captivity in order to be hunted illegally, according to the League Against Cruel Sports.

"The animal charity's investigation found 16 fox cubs, some as young as three months, being held in a dark shed near Malton in North Yorkshire.

"The League found that the foxes were being fed dead chickens and provided with dirty water in bowls. The charity claims that they were forcibly removed from their original habitat because of the lack of vixens and adult foxes.

"On 31 May, North Yorkshire Police raided the barns, removed the foxes and arrested the employee seen feeding the foxes. 15 of the foxes are being kept in a secret location, while one died shortly after being rescued.

" 'This blows apart the argument that hunting is 'wildlife management','said Dr Toni Shephard, the head of policy and research for the animal charity. "

If foxes are "vermin" because they kill wantonly, then so are domestic cats. These animals are not "wicked" or "vicious" - it is their instinct to hunt and kill in order to stay alive.

only difference that most domestic cats do not need to kill to stay alive as they are fed by loving owners - but instinct is still there.

As I worked as a volunteer with Police Wildlife liaison for so many years, cases of Hunts catching and even breeding foxes and cubs for 'easy' hunting has been going on for many many years. Especially for rich clients with little experience of riding or hunting - a bit like 'canned hunting' in Africa. And as said, totally destroys the argument.

Could never understand the difference made by some people, between a crow or magpie catching and eating a baby bird being 'bad' but it is ok for a sparrow hawk or peregrine, for instance??? The vixen that killed our pet chickens needed to feed her cubs- we provided the food by poor husbandry.
She carefully took one, and buried the others carefully under our hedge- and as upset as we were, we left them for her to return, one per night (we had 6- all rescued featherless and aneamic from egg farm up the road) - as we felt that was best, to let nature take its course.

I'd just love to have chickens again here - but with so many stoats and beech martens and foxes- it would be a constant battle, so we won't. No fox hunting here- but rogue foxes will be cleanly shot is necessary. I have no objection to that.

It must be remembered that fox attacks are not always the result of poor animal husbandry. They're not called cunning for nothing.

We're lucky that the fox is our main serious predator though. At least we don't have to contend with bears and wolves.

They are thinking of bringing back wolves to the Kielder area and Scotland, merlot.

Yes, I read that, dj

It will be an interesting programme to follow although I can understand the concerns of local people.

Just had an email from my MP saying she has cancelled constituency meetings to be there for the vote and will vote against an repeal or changes. Brave of her as she lives in this village and there is always a hunt meeting which stops traffic on boxing day.

What are the SNP going to do?

Any SNP members? Do you know why foxhunting law is different in Scotland?
Hope the SNP vote with the Labour party to keep the law as it is in England.

I also hope lots of Tories vote against a change in the law. Cameron will win either way.

"Last week the Guardian revealed that SNP MPs are being lobbied by voters in the rest of the UK who are promising to holiday in Scotland and buy more whisky if they vote against the repeal of the hunting ban."

'Imgine if a gang of thugs set a pack of dogs on a terrified animal for a laugh.... Now imagine they're posh people on horseback'

indeed Ricky Gervais, spot on. If thugs from a downtown estate did that - imagine the outcry and the custodial sentence...

However, Gervais is wrong in saying 'posh' people, as it makes it a class war. Many hunters are not posh- it costs a lot to keep a horse or horses, but not necessarily if you live in the countryside. And it is true that a lot of cruelty and abuse is perpetrated by the terrier men employed by the hunts, without any awareness of what goes on behind the scene (closing your eyes and not wanting to know helps) - like the catching of pregnant vixen to pen up so the cubs can be raised for 'canned' hunting, or some of the barbarity of cubbing practices, and holding live foxes for the dogs to maul for long periods of time for training purposes, and associated 'sports' (yiiikes- how can any of this be called 'sport')- like badger digging and baiting, dog and cock fighting. I have been involved in many cases of terrifying cruelty led by the terriemen of famous hunts, with the Hunt totalla denying any knowledge or responsibility (I used to live surrounded by 5 of the most famous Hunts in the country- Prince Charles had to stop riding with the Cottesmore when it was proven to carry illegal acts of cruelty about 20 years ago).

No matter who takes part, are we a country which supports cruelty to animals or not because fox hunting is brutal, there is no defence for it.

It is beyond ghastly

whitewave, makes one question the nature of those who support it

If domestic dogs were not fed by humans they too would kill for food.

Change.org #petition not far off 500,000 signatures ~ www.change.org/p/david-cameron-mp-keep-the-ban-on-fox-hunting-2/u/10754085 #KeepTheBan