Perhaps there should be a forum for anti-religion posts where vitiol and hatred can be kept in one place

Why?

#notworthit

I do see your point, jingl. It hardly seems worth posting anything positive about a religious matter, as anything at all to do with religion seems to be like a red rag to some members.

Thanks Ana.

Religion is sadly a subject that always creates strife. Those who believe might feel threatened by those who do not; or those (some of them believers indeed) who have deep concerns about the effects of some religious thought (oppression, terrorism, child mutilation, sexual guilt etc.) might appear on the surface to be threatening.

But it is legitimate and reasonable that people should both have and express those concerns.

I have posted several times expressing the view that religion can be a positive influence; and remarking that the majority of my dear friends are believers in several religions. I respect their beliefs and they respect my concerns. That is how it should be in real life as well as in virtual life.

Having concerns about the negative aspects of religion is not being "anti-religious." Many of us recognise the important things that religion brings to peoples' lives - we just may not share this belief. As an agnostic - a true "don't know" - cannot share this.

But I can listen to others' views and take on board what their religion means to them.

I have never seen a post on gransnet that might be regarded as offensive to believers; expressing a different view is fine - it does not need to be seen as offensive. It is simply part of a mature discussion.

I am always slightly puzzled when those who hold sincere beliefs appear to find such discussions problematical. I use the word "appear" because I may be mis-reading their responses. I have no problem about debating these things with believers - I do not find that threatening to me.

There are believers on here (like lilygran) who seem happy to have a discussion about differences in belief. I applaud her and others like her.

The closing down of discussion on such matters is one of the things that frightens non-believers like myself, because it carries a hint of fundamentalism that troubles me deeply.

I would think grown women could manage a bit of sensitivity. It seems not.

#timeandplace

Well, JO, so far on this thread, Mishap's answer was very sensitive, despite (because of?) her "don't know" status, Ana says she sees your point, and Granjura just asked "Why?"

Taken by itself it seems unremarkable so far. Your own last comment was the only crirical one.

For crirical read critical.

Mishaps, my sentiments entirely. I agree that one should not deride or insult- but no subject should be taboo.

Sometimes derision and/or insult are entirely appropriate (not necessarily in relation to religon; I'm including all subject matter).

Spoke too soon Elegran ????

So far I haven't criticised, or derided, or insulted anything or anyone on this thread, orca, only mentioned that sometimes derision is appropriate.

The bottom line really is that there cannot be a thread that is censored to contain only views that accord with those of the original poster. I am sure that gransnet would not allow that.

But, on the other hand, I think it is important to respect the views of others, even if we cannot agree with them and feel the need to argue strongly against those views. I think that the argument should be polite and aim not to hurt feelings.

Let's not discuss religion, politics, economics, child abuse, domestic abuse, murder, famine , revolution, war, peace, greed, the welfare state, marriage, education, sexuality, censorship… oh, and, of course, religion, just in case someone feels a little bit upset by something someone says.

And yes, for the record it would be nice if grown women could manage a bit of sensitivity, plus not make crossed out rude personal criticisms and so-called witty little hash tag comments.

Sorry, Bags, I can't think of a situation on G'net when derision would be an appropriate response. Derision isn't just rude, it can be cruel. I hope we don't do it.

I meant derision of an idea, not a person, anno.

And I meant it as in mocking. It's surely OK to mock what one thinks is a daft idea? And especially ideas picked up from news media and so forth?

Even when it's apparently done just to make the holder of such ideas feel suitably chastened and belittled?

Ana "Apparently done" – so not necessarily what was actually in the poster's mind but someone else's conclusion about the poster's motives. If we had to spend time anticipating how other people would second guess our motives, no one would post anything on any subject.

Yes, "apparently done". I certainly never do it for that reason, whatever people may think.

I may be missing something, but I don't think that there is anything on the most recent Religion & Spirituality thread that might be classed as "vitriol and hatred".

Yes, there is some difference of opinion, but little more than that?

Yes, that's the usual response.

I've had some of my ideas mocked on gransnet, and why not? Some of them needed to be mocked. I've learned from the mockery.

Fine, ana. I cannot help it if you don't trust me to be telling the truth. Other people do, especially, I think you will find, the people who know me better than you do.