Brexit is the cause of the shortages

I am old enough to clearly remember the 70s when we were universally regarded as the sick man of Europe and am disappointed we seem to be going back down that same road. However much our hopeless PM puffs himself up with how great things are now we have Got Brexit Done things are much worse on so many fronts.
Maggie I am sorry about your mum, after 60 years it must be a bitter pill to swallow.

Well if you’re happy being angry about something you have absolutely no control over then fine, it’s your life.

I agree Kandinsky it’s well known that holding on to anger and bitterness can lead to many problems.
I don’t know any people in real life who are still going on and on about Brexit ( even though at the time they voted to remain) so many years after the referendum. They are more concerned about Covid, but are getting on with their lives in any case.Social media seems to bring out a lot of rage.

Being angry about Brexit is rational. MaggieTilliver has done the right thing by asking people for reasons why her opinion is wrong, although she might need to cast her net further than GN. She doesn't need a counsellor and implying that somebody else is mentally ill for having rational thoughts is despicable and suggests some personality disorder in anybody who would suggest such a thing.

I think that you can replace your term anger for exercising our democratic right to criticise, and push for change.

It may not suit your narrative, but that is what it is.

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I can’t see the point in being embittered and getting your knickers in a twist. It is what it is. We have left and that is that. We are just coming out of a pandemic which has slewed everything. You didn’t vote for Brexit and are angry that it took place and now you are looking to blame everything on it rightly or wrongly. “New things have to experience difficulties in order to grow” - actually I think that’s from Mao’s Little Red Book, so bound to be a few blips on the way, but oh the joy for anti brexiters!

There won’t be any change Whitewave so anger ( or democratic right to criticise) is futile ( as the Borg might say).

We had a democratic vote in 2016.
?
Just that some who voted ‘the other way’ are still upset (annoyed). That is understandable. But we are where we are.

I’m happy.
Most (on GN) are not.
The majority of the UK are less politically minded and are just getting on with their daily lives. Covid (lessening hopefully), shortages (ditto) and thinking of other things - family, work, school runs etc.

As lemongrove said, nobody mentions Brexit - except on here, where some people seem doomed to never get over it!

Alegrias1 calling people a bunch of gullible eejits ?

We have left and that is that.

Can we stop this too?

We know we've left, we're not the ones ignoring facts. We still get to comment on the fact that it was a daft idea and its got sour quicker that even we might have imagined. And if you think "anti-Brexiters" are taking any joy in this debacle, which is a bit more than a blip, you're deluded.

I can't believe English arrogance, yet again a suggestion that a solution to the disaster of Brexit is to reunite Ireland.
The Republic of Ireland is an independent country that had to fight for its independence from a colonial Britain which invaded and used Ireland over four centuries. Ireland is doing very well for itself and as part of the EU.
Always the way for Brexiters to cast about and blame anyone but themselves for the mess this country is now in. It upsets me to see those on low incomes and those disadvantaged in other ways suffering the most but when did the Tories ever care about these people. The Cabinet is stuffed with millionaires, including a hugely rich Chancellor, who look after themselves and their ilk.
It's been long pointed out that the propaganda for Brexit built up at the point where EU regulations about tax avoidance and wealth hidden overseas were about to be enacted. You won't see that in the Daily Telegraph of course or Murdoch's rags.
I agree with you all the way MT.

I’m always unfailingly polite Alegrias so why the ‘A bunch of gullible eejits’ jibe? It’s not necessary. It only inflames a situation.

Hetty58

As lemongrove said, nobody mentions Brexit - except on here, where some people seem doomed to never get over it!

It depends on the people with whom you associate. I know plenty of people whose lives have been affected negatively by Brexit. They and many others are always ready to talk about it.

Urmstongran

I’m always unfailingly polite Alegrias so why the ‘A bunch of gullible eejits’ jibe? It’s not necessary. It only inflames a situation.

I suspect that's quite polite. I know I wouldn't dare write what I really think on GN.

Do not fall into the trap that having left all future generations have to tolerate what this generation has imposed on them.

They don’t! They will change it. This is certainly not a once and for all decision, it will be changed.

Kandinsky

Why do you care what the foreign media think of us? They’re still bitter & angry that we left! especially Germany because now they have to pay more in.
And why does anyone need to convince you that leaving the EU is a good thing? who are you? You’ll never agree anyway. . God himself could tell you it’s great & you still wouldn’t believe it.

Please - for your own sanity - accept that we’ve left. Stop reading German media because it’s all just sour grapes.
And it might be an idea to see your GP if you’ve been angry since 2016. I’m sure they can suggest some sort of counselling service.

Please see the link in the original post. It links to an article in the Guardian.

Anybody going to have at persuading MaggieTulliver that Brexit was a positive move or is this thread going to degenerate into deflection, gas lighting and name calling?

ayse

Kandinsky

Why do you care what the foreign media think of us? They’re still bitter & angry that we left! especially Germany because now they have to pay more in.
And why does anyone need to convince you that leaving the EU is a good thing? who are you? You’ll never agree anyway. . God himself could tell you it’s great & you still wouldn’t believe it.

Please - for your own sanity - accept that we’ve left. Stop reading German media because it’s all just sour grapes.
And it might be an idea to see your GP if you’ve been angry since 2016. I’m sure they can suggest some sort of counselling service.

Please see the link in the original post. It links to an article in the Guardian.

I could provide direct links to many sources of foreign opinion.

Whitewavemark2

Genuinely interested.
What are you doing to get the UK back in the EU ASAP? ( assuming they’d have us, which I doubt tbh )
Have remainers set up a political party like UKIP in reverse?

Urmstongran and Kandinsky, you mean THIS Lord Frost, who in June 2016 knew very well the dangers of Brexit, and was 100% remainer.

DAVID FROST, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE SCOTCH WHISKY ASSOCIATION

‘As an industry we live on our exports. Scotch whisky is the biggest single contributor to Britain’s trade balance in goods. Ninety percent of our production – £4bn a year – is exported. About a third of that goes to the EU. The single set of rules in the single market makes it easier for us to operate across all of Europe.

‘Outside Europe, when we export, we face all kinds of barriers: high tariffs, like the 150% tariff in India; discriminatory taxes; burdensome licensing; or complex labelling rules. The EU helps us secure fairer access to those markets. For example, the free trade deals with Korea and Vietnam will cut the tariff on Scotch to zero.

‘The EU also helps us protect the term “Scotch whisky”. European rules make it illegal to misuse the term within the EU, and help us chase down those unfairly taking advantage of our reputation by embedding it in free trade deals.

‘Of course, many point out – rightly – that we would still trade with the EU without being a member of it. And it is true that Scotch whisky’s existence does not depend on the EU – but, without it, life would be much more complex, burdensome and uncertain.

‘Exports to the EU would face additional paperwork and other border formalities. We would find it much harder to influence EU rules that affected the Scotch whisky industry. And Scotch whisky would no longer be covered by European free trade deals, so tariffs could go up.

‘In short, we have nothing to gain, and a lot to lose, from Britain having the status of Norway, Switzerland or Canada, the models pushed by the proponents of Brexit, still less from relying on WTO rules only.

‘For all the EU’s frustrations, it makes production easier, paperwork simpler and competition stronger – and hence prices cheaper. Let’s not turn our back on the world's greatest free trade area, on our own doorstep: instead, let’s make it work.’''

Johnson and Frost knew EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE SIGNING - every word - and they knew exactly what the consequences would be. But they signed it. Why did they do that? Are you saying they planned all along to tear it up. If so, how can it possibly be justified.

If France signed a Treaty that would mean a border had to be put between Europe and Corsica- do you think they would have signed it? How do you believe the EU 'annexed' anything, anywhere.

I have tried to be polite and debate, with evidence and without getting angry- and it has been hard, I must say.

But surely, at this stage, if you are calling for triggering article 16, that will show to the world that the UK's word cannot ever be trusted again- and that will get the EU to raise all their shields in unison- then you must be utterly mad.

The UK is an Island surrounded by the EU- nothing can come in, or out, without the EU blocking it. And we are massively dependent on the utilities and services the UK has, quite freely, sold on to them. And for labour too for the jobs the UK people don't want to do, or can't do, furlough or not. Would you want your unemployed grand-daughter to go and work in an abattoir? It is not for the faint hearted, for sure, and highly skilled and dangerous.

Completely and utterly MAD.

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Kandinsky

Whitewavemark2

Genuinely interested.
What are you doing to get the UK back in the EU ASAP? ( assuming they’d have us, which I doubt tbh )
Have remainers set up a political party like UKIP in reverse?

A dedicated political party won’t be necessary or desirable.

I read another forum and Brexit is a permanent on there as well so the arguement it is only on gransnet won't wash