South Africa has paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine

What I find extraordinary about South Africa is that according to WHO figures, the number of Covid cases and deaths is dropping - how is that happening without a vaccination programme even getting off the ground?

I understand that they are relaxing lockdown restrictions to a certain extent. Could it be that it's summer there and that's making a difference?

WHO

I was just thinking the same thing SuzieW. I do hope you got my apologies, flowers and more apologies, for mistaking you for someone else before the other thread was rightly closed.

What does ‘minimal effect against mild and moderate cases” actually mean?

It has minimal effect on preventing the number of cases of mild and moderate?

It didn’t alter the progress of mild and moderate cases?

After vaccination there were the same number of cases but these were mild to moderate?

The study only looked at mild and moderate?

I don’t think that bit is very clear.

PippaZ

I was just thinking the same thing SuzieW. I do hope you got my apologies, flowers and more apologies, for mistaking you for someone else before the other thread was rightly closed.

Thanks for that - the thread had got really muddled and I should have avoided ambiguous use of ‘they’ ??

I’ve had the Oxford vaccine along with four members of my family, & their NHS workers, had mine because of my age
I’m now concerned about the NHS workers that are not covered as fully as need be, will they get priority in getting new vaccines ? or am I worrying about nothing?
Stay safe

Peasblossom

What does ‘minimal effect against mild and moderate cases” actually mean?

It has minimal effect on preventing the number of cases of mild and moderate?

It didn’t alter the progress of mild and moderate cases?

After vaccination there were the same number of cases but these were mild to moderate?

The study only looked at mild and moderate?

I don’t think that bit is very clear.

Minimal in this study meant only 22%. All outcomes were recorded - mild, moderate, severe, hospitalisations, deaths. Of the subjects infected and vaccinated, only 22% showed no mild or moderate outcomes ie 78% had mild/moderate outcomes. No one had more serious outcomes but and this is a big but the subjects were young ànd healthy and unlikely therefore to be seriously ill or die. What we have here is an absence of evidence not evidence of absence. The fact that AZ are working on a booster jab for the SA variant is relevant.

DeeDe

I’ve had the Oxford vaccine along with four members of my family, & their NHS workers, had mine because of my age
I’m now concerned about the NHS workers that are not covered as fully as need be, will they get priority in getting new vaccines ? or am I worrying about nothing?
Stay safe

As long as we don’t get the SA variant - that’s what trying to trace cases here is so important as is keeping more cases out. What everyone has to do is keep acting as though they haven’t been vaccinated. No vaccine gives 100% protection anyway even against the original strain

The study was small 2,000 people average age 31.

The numbers are falling in South Africa, and everything is open?

Experts that have been rolled out on numerous news programmes today seem to want more information before committing to an opinion.

Far too many questions and variants not enough definitive answers.

OK that’s a bit clearer. Any ongoing studies on older age groups?

The median age was 31 not the average. The upper age was 40 which is the really relevant fact

Peasblossom

OK that’s a bit clearer. Any ongoing studies on older age groups?

My understanding is that these results are from Phase1/11 trials. Early stage trials are almost always done on younger healthier subjects. The next stage is Phase 111 and at this stage older groups are usually included along with people with underlying conditions

If it means that we can still catch CV after having the Oxford jab ......_we already knew that was possible with both vaccines_

If it means we can still catch CV but it won’t become the killer we are frightened of but cause more minor flu symptoms ....._We already knew that I thought_
So is this new information? or just a rehashed piece of information we already knew and if so it is just a damaging and scare mongering especially if the red tops pick up and run with it

Too many have died after having had vaccinations---why ?
It seems to have been the Pfizer one where to begin with there were 23 deaths in Norway. Other's have occured in other countries including our own. It's not acceptable !
Don't you think that there should be a call for more testing before another vaccine is just cobbled together ?

suziewoozie

The median age was 31 not the average. The upper age was 40 which is the really relevant fact

Average / Median depends where you are getting the information. The American Professor of epidemiology who is based at one of the Scottish Universities repeatedly said “average age” on the news this morning.

Thanks Suzie very informative.

DH and I were talking about this at lunchtime. Neither of us are medics or virologists or anything like it, but we're both scientists.

DH hadn't been following this and when I explained it was an unreviewed paper leaked by the Telegraph on Friday night, he was amazed at the amount of discussion going on about it. Median age, size of the trial, the meaning of "minimal", how many SA cases in the UK etc.

There are only going to be more and more trials and more and more results that mean things will change. If we individually try to understand what everything will mean then it won't be COVID that gets us, it will be stress.

EllanVannin did these people die because of the vaccine or regardless of the vaccine

And if it isn't Covid or stress, it'll be the bloomin' vaccine !

GrannyGravy13

suziewoozie

The median age was 31 not the average. The upper age was 40 which is the really relevant fact

Average / Median depends where you are getting the information. The American Professor of epidemiology who is based at one of the Scottish Universities repeatedly said “average age” on the news this morning.

People are very lazy in using the word average even Professors and it’s really not good enough. There are three measures of dispersion - mean, median and mode and in clinical research it’s incredibly important which is meant. I actually went to the actual trial results and found the information that the median age was 31 (which means half were below and half above this age) However by itself this did not tell us how many older people were in the trial so I looked at the range which was twenty something ( forget exactly) with a top age of 40 which is really relevant

Oh don't say that EV - people will believe you!! ?

Alegrias1 I agree, I do wish the media would only report factual news as opposed to maybe/might be. It can lead to misunderstandings and scares folks unnecessarily.

Alegrias1

DH and I were talking about this at lunchtime. Neither of us are medics or virologists or anything like it, but we're both scientists.

DH hadn't been following this and when I explained it was an unreviewed paper leaked by the Telegraph on Friday night, he was amazed at the amount of discussion going on about it. Median age, size of the trial, the meaning of "minimal", how many SA cases in the UK etc.

There are only going to be more and more trials and more and more results that mean things will change. If we individually try to understand what everything will mean then it won't be COVID that gets us, it will be stress.

I sympathise with much of this post but given thE huge amount of uninformed comment that will inevitably result from earlier and earlier reporting of pre peer reviewed results, I think it’s helpful to have clinical trial nerds like me around.

suziewoozie I have not got a science background, I rely on a wide range of experts, if they are sloppy with words and explanations who do folks like me turn to for information?

If it prevents serious illness or death that will do for me.Honestly the news last night.The BBC can't wait to give us bad news.