The Hard Truth About Going No Contact With A Parent

That's a good point DL. It would be very hard to estrange both parents because there are problems with one. It's being as content as you can be with whatever decision you make that matters.

It's good you have happy childhood memories of your dad Sara and were able to enjoy that relationship despite how things were with your mum.

Whether or not one continuing a relationship is regarded as a sense of ‘duty’ is up for that individual alone to decide in the case of dysfunctional familial relationships. For some, there is no ‘duty’ to override when they are mistreated. Duty simply isn’t a factor when it comes to suffering and not suffering. We cannot decide for others what their duties are to begin with.

I agree Limcha and as I posted, what matters is being as content as you can be with whatever decision you make.

ACs might look after their parents as they get older out of love rather than duty

Or they might feel a sense of duty that drives them to provide support as needed

If an AC suffered an abusive childhood, then it is entirely reasonable if they do not feel any sense of duty and even though they MAY still feel love (possibly for what they would like rather than what they have as their parent) that love may well not stretch to any sense of duty, if only for self-protection. Entirely understandable. They have no obligation.

That said there is definitely, alongside all those scenarios, another scenario where a third party enters the equation and impacts on the dynamics of a parent/child relationship. There are too many examples of positive parent/AC relationships turning into estrangement or low contact or ongoing fear of estrangement, not always after "years of trying", for that whole aspect to be ignored.

...and meant to say, a very interesting article!

I know that I’ve never really loved my mother, not even liked her.
But when I was younger I craved her approval and attention, I don’t know why.

My role models in life were my mother and grandmother, they were practically joined at the hip, never a day passed when we weren’t in each other’s houses, so I find it strange that she felt so little affection for me.

None of it matters anymore, I don’t dwell on it, just a lot of unanswered questions remain.

I don’t think my mothers relationship with her own mother was in any way dutiful, she once told me her spirits always lifted when she saw my gran coming down the street.

It''s the most natural thing in the world to crave your mother's approval and attention Sara because it should simply be there. Seeing how close your mum was to her mum must have made it even harder for you.

A relationship that was dutiful wouldn't have made your mum feel her spirits always lifted when she saw (your) gran.

My spirits always lifted when I saw our son before he estranged us, but at least I had that with him. I'm sorry you never got to experience that with your mum.

The disruption caused by a third party features in many estrangement situations doesn't it Madgran and if not estrangement can as you say result in low contact or a constant fear that estrangement will happen evenutally.

oops eventually.

Madgran77

ACs might look after their parents as they get older out of love rather than duty

Or they might feel a sense of duty that drives them to provide support as needed

If an AC suffered an abusive childhood, then it is entirely reasonable if they do not feel any sense of duty and even though they MAY still feel love (possibly for what they would like rather than what they have as their parent) that love may well not stretch to any sense of duty, if only for self-protection. Entirely understandable. They have no obligation.

That said there is definitely, alongside all those scenarios, another scenario where a third party enters the equation and impacts on the dynamics of a parent/child relationship. There are too many examples of positive parent/AC relationships turning into estrangement or low contact or ongoing fear of estrangement, not always after "years of trying", for that whole aspect to be ignored.

I find what happens more is a third party enters and highlights poor behaviour and creates boundaries that were never there previously the AC is put in a position that had not occurred before

And for many the love of a life partner trunps that of a patent who's behaviour they had either tolerated or who could not evolve and conform to their new life.

Good point Bibbity.

I find what happens more is a third party enters and highlights poor behaviour and creates boundaries that were never there previously the AC is put in a position that had not occurred before

I'm sure in some cases that is the case as you have "found"Bibbity - not sure if you are referring to personal experience, people you have met or through reading.

Equally in some cases that is not the case as there is nothing to highlight in terms of "poor behaviour" , and appropriate boundaries are in place. In some cases the third party influence is not positive for many potential reasons; each case is different ofcourse.

Limcha

Whether or not one continuing a relationship is regarded as a sense of ‘duty’ is up for that individual alone to decide in the case of dysfunctional familial relationships. For some, there is no ‘duty’ to override when they are mistreated. Duty simply isn’t a factor when it comes to suffering and not suffering. We cannot decide for others what their duties are to begin with.

Exactly

This article and I guess this thread is there to support those making a hard decision.

Not those making an easy decision, a coerced decision or an emotionally violent decision.

It's hard enough to do without some of the expectations "others" place on you. The judgement, the declarations that they would "never estrange".

The truth is that they just haven't walked your path.

When someone who hasn't walked your path judges you, it's not really about you at all. It's about them.

If someone wants to make a situation that they aren't involved with, about themselves, it's a red flag.

Amongst all the issues mentioned in the article, it can be the hardest to deal with, that judgement. When you are just struggling to find yourself after being told who you are for such a long time. When trying to find yourself you are constantly tripped up or hit roadblocks of judgement.

Whether those who judge are doing it knowingly or not, they are basically re-traumatising you. It's another form of abuse.

But at some point on that healing journey... it just stops working. You realise the judgement of others isn't about you. It's all about them, their needs, their wants.

Because a good person, a true, kind and empathetic person, just doesn't do that.

So they must be getting something out of it for themselves. Whether that is simply them hiding from themselves the truth of their own paths or something more sinister.. it doesn't really matter.

When you realise other people's feelings about your situation are not your responsibility... it is entirely freeing

You are already flying free while they are held to the ground by the weight of their own unresolved issues

Madgran77

*I find what happens more is a third party enters and highlights poor behaviour and creates boundaries that were never there previously the AC is put in a position that had not occurred before*

I'm sure in some cases that is the case as you have "found"Bibbity - not sure if you are referring to personal experience, people you have met or through reading.

Equally in some cases that is not the case as there is nothing to highlight in terms of "poor behaviour" , and appropriate boundaries are in place. In some cases the third party influence is not positive for many potential reasons; each case is different ofcourse.

All of the above.

The issue I find is that the one usually blaming the third party is not the one who understands or is with the AC. And so they write their own narrative.

Very powerful post VS! I agree 100%.

Violet
I think estrangement is about two people only.
You have to be strong and be prepared to disregard any criticism you might face, and you will.

Sometimes it’s easier to take the path of least resistance I would imagine.

I think 'other' people can be just as manipulated though and that is why they judge the person who is also being manipulated as they couldn't possibly be so...erm manipulated

It was not my day for the Brian cell

To take Bibbity’s point a bit further, in many instances, even when the estranging offspring verbalizes his or her own reasons there is an unfortunate habit of others presuming to know the mind of heart of the estranging offspring better than they know themselves. What I mean by that is, the spouse will still be blamed no matter what the adult offspring says because the estranged parent or other relatives refuse to accept that the decision was their own. Some relatives need the outside boogeyman to blame for the relationship breakdown because it is a very hard thing to accept that our children do not see our relationship the way we thought they did. As a parent I can understand, but not condone, this denial. I can think of few things more hurtful than my sons whom I’d die for not viewing my love for them the way I do. So I still have some compassion on that front, but as I said before the demonization and refusal to accept the offspring’s feelings and reasons are reconciliation roadblocks.

Limcha
I think it’s best not to get into the reasons with third parties, it will just muddy the waters.

I would think a few people think I’m being horrible, but they aren’t my problem,

My mother doesn’t blame my husband, tends to use him more as a means to get me to speak to her, she even uses emotional pressure with my grandchildren, nothing will make a difference.

The point is that every version raised in the last few posts is absolutely possible in some cases Just as it is possible that in some cases it is not about " a narrative" or a "refusal to accept" but that an AC has entered a relationship with a third party that for whatever reason is not a healthy one etc etc.

There are so many scenarios that are identified, all possible.
There is the possibility of those different scenarios for different people in different circumstances.

None of this should detract from the powerful article that Violet posted when she started this thread.

I think only the two people actually in a relationship truly know the dynamics of it, and whether or not it is a healthy one, unless objectively abusive behavior has been witnessed directly. Assigning blame for a parent/child relationship on a third party is a slippery slope.

What VS says about not giving power to the judgement of others on your decision to estrange is so poignant. People will presume to tell you how you should feel and what you should and shouldn’t due to preserve your inner peace, and there is nothing positive for the estranging party to gain from internalizing that judgement. People will presume to tell you your reasons are not truly your own, and that you are weak enough to be manipulated by another but in the end that matters not. That’s their opinion and no one knows your heart better than you do. As long as one is at peace with their decision, all the judgement and misdirected blame in the world cannot snatch it away.

Other people do not live the subtle nuances of our lives and relationships so cannot judge.

Unfortunately judgement from others is something that I think everyone living with estrangement faces at one time or another. The one estranging will face it as will the one who has been estranged.

As you posted Sara "You have to be strong and disregard any criticism you might face, and you will". This is so true but as we all know I'm sure, it is easier said than done.

It takes time to come to terms with estrangement and to build resilience to criticism, which often comes from those who have not experienced it or whose experience is completely different to your own.

Your point about taking the line of least resistance is also pertinent. Doing so can be seen as a way of avoiding estrangement but in reality merely puts off the inevitable. Or in a situation as described by Madgran where "an AC has entered a relationship with a third party that for whatever reason is not a healthy one", taking the line of least resistance with that partner can be at the expense of another relationship
resulting in the person/people in that relationship being estranged.

The goal for all of us is to find peace. Criticism and judgement can make it harder to get there but the goal can still be reached.

Other people do not live the subtle nuances of our lives and relationships so cannot judge but some do don't they Mandrake and that just makes an already hard situation even harder.

The article brings back some bitter memories.

There was never a moment when I actually broke with my parents and told them I was not going to see them again. I just gradually withdrew from the point where I moved to another city to study and never returned to the one of my birth. My visits grew less and less frequent and more of a chore.

After uni my new career involved overseas travel and I just made that travel appear a lot more frequent and sustained than it actually was. There were mobiles then but very expensive to use outside UK. No smart phones and my parents did not have a clue about email.

I think that is known as "ghosting" rather than estrangement per se.

HousePlantQueen

As someone who has been fortunate to not have suffered from emotional abuse or to have had to consider going no contact, I found this article very interesting. The most pertinent point I think is the comparison to an abusive spouse and divorce which nobody would criticise you for. to those on here who have made the difficult decision.

Oh, but some people DO judge me for divorcing my coercively abusive spouse, because he has M Health problems....... and some think its my duty to Stand By My Man despite some appalling events which have needed months to understand and unpick. .....His own mother agrees with me. I had the whole cycle of love bombing then slowly being subtly undermined and being controlled but trying to make things better for him. It wasn't all one way the caring of course over time but you realise in the end with an abuser whoever they are has a way of thinking that cannot comprehend other's worlds, in the end it's all about them. Fortunately his behaviour was witnessed at points and in the end I sound recorded and screen shot mails and texts and involved the police. And he wrote nasty stuff to DiL so they know. But what I'm trying to unpick is, what was it in me that allowed me to become accepting for so long, and try to mend someone being abusive. (we're talking covert narcism here, although it borders into malicious at times.). I dont wish for total no contact at least until a divorce sorted.