Feeling a lot of pain! :-(

nannynoo I'm not sure if you are already aware of the organisation 'Grandparents Plus' which exists specifically to support and advise grandparents in your situation. The website us very informative and they have an advice line.

There is a wealth of research which shows that children generally do better when cared for by carers who are known to them than by strangers. This is perhaps even more true for a child with special needs whose family member already understands these needs and how the child communicates. There is often a false assumption by professionals that 'because a parent is risky, the whole family is risky'. This is by no means always the case. If you can read up on these issues through the website this will help you to argue your case with the social workers. You have clearly expressed on here how you will put your grandson's welfare before your loyalty to your daughter, and you must try again to convince the professionals of this in a calm and informed manner. I think that what you say about coping well with everything that as been thrown at you so far can aso be presented as evidence that you are able to cope with pressure. Remember that social workers are looking for evidence of how you will cope - if you can counter their arguments with evidence of this kind it will strengthen your case.

Good luck

nannynoo I think it would certainly help if you tell the social workers that this would be a plan you would be willing to implement.

It is the same plan that non-related foster carers would be expected to implement.

There will be people on here more qualified than me to offer advice, all I can offer is sympathy and hope that at least you will be able to spend more time with your much-loved DGC. He surely needs your continued love in his life. You must try all avenues to keep contact with him.

Condolences also on the loss of your DGD. Words are not enough.

Well said rosequartz - I'm so sorry I overlooked the loss of your DGD nannynoo. I don't know how you are finding the strength to keep going at the moment, do take care of yourself.

I do love my DD and it is upsetting to say the least to see what she is doing to herself and to know she is in a place of instability but I do have to distance myself from her somewhat and I have a feeling that soon I will become ''the enemy''

The enemy is not me , the enemy is her addiction

I do have my own anger to deal with about the affect my DD's drinking has had on myself and my Grandson and there are groups which have helped support me with that as well

Ultimately what I am doing is for my DD's OWN GOOD , I know she won't see that but am prepared for her reaction

It is difficult to even describe the amount of different emotions I have had to deal with over the last 6 months and am still dealing with but am getting through it on my own but with some support in place which is the way to go I reckon! xx

nannynoo sending you many good wishes.....

There may well be retired SS workers on here, but I can only speak as I find.The ones that I and my DD have been involved with have been Hellish.They have lied, and prevaricated and been neglectful.They have at times been vindictive[one in particular.]Another one appeared unhinged.Only people who have been on the receiving end of SS workers are entitled to have a say in this.It's no good someone saying, oh I was a SW and I was wonderful.I am prepared to believe that there may be some good ones, but have not met any yet.Just saying.

nannynoo and I have PM'd each other and we understand what some SW's can be like.It's no good sugar coating things.My advice of staying [outwardly] calm with them but not ever giving up is still good advice.

should have read 'not' sugar coating things. Tiring day.

Not only 'ex' social workers on here rosesarered, I am still working. I actually wrk with family and friend carers so know a lot about the issues nannynoo has raised. I am not going to say I am wonderful, but I do my best and hope that I am not untruthful, vindictive, neglectful or unhinged. I have my own feelings about the way the profession has developed over the last 30+ years since I entered it, and I have expressed those feelings several times on here in no uncertain terms. However, I do feel you have been unlucky and I'm sorry you have never met a good social worker.

I dont agree that 'only people who have been on the receiving end of SS workers are entitled to have a say in this'. Do you not think that some of us may be in a position to offer nannynoo some helpful advice from an 'insider' point of view, knowing how the system works. Why would we do that if we were all as bad as you seem to think we are? Of course, nannynoo is free to listen to or ignore whatever advice is given, but some of it may be more productive than simply getting together to say how awful Social Workers are.

It is very important not to inflame an already very difficult situation.

Branding the majority of social workers as neglectful vindictive liars is no way to help nannynoo find a way through this situation. She needs to keep an open mind and understand where SSD might be coming from - this is what some of us have been trying to help her with. This is what will help her to make her case - if she can show that she understands the SWs' concerns and dilemmas in the light of their duties, and that she is making concrete plans to cover all eventualities that might be of concern she is far more likely to work towards an outcome that she will be happy with.

Setting her up to hate those whose very difficult job it is to find the right solution is no way to help her. It will simply inflame the problem and make progress impossible.

I hope that nannynoo is able to pursue the balanced approach that she has courageously been able to demonstrate on this forum - I am sure she understands that this is the only way forward.

I would be that last person to say that all SWs are excellent - that is clearly not true and never could be - but because someone makes an unpopular decision, does not mean they are bad at their job. Being unpopular is par for the course when having to take such difficult decisions that stir emotions.

I do not think that anyone is "sugar-coating things" but neither are they trying to make things worse by setting up negative expectations.

Nannynoo needs to keep her cool and show her maturity and strength - this is far more likely to be of help to her than harbouring blanket negative thoughts about the SSD, and no-one should be encouraging her in that direction as this will ensure a disappointing outcome.

Does it look to you roses as if those ex and current SWs on this forum are being obstructive and unhelpful?

My experiences sadly have been the same as rosesarered. The social workers my DD and I were involved with were inflexible and critical. There was no sense that they were on our side and my advice to nannynoo would be to stand up to them in a polite but forceful way and insist that you are quite capable of looking after your grandson. I'm sure the more experienced social workers like yourself nightowl do a wonderful job but unfortunately our dealings were with young workers who hadn't quite got the "bedside manner". As in all professions there are the good and the bad.

I'm sorry to hear that Greenfinch. I can't dispute that there is less value given to the right 'bedside manner' in social work training nowadays. I agree that it is important for nannynoo to 'stand up to social workers in a polite but forceful way' but to succeed she needs to also provide evidence of how she will cope. I tried to give some suggestions of how she might do this in my earlier post. Others have offered similar constructive advice. As Mishap so rightly says, this is the way forward, not simply harbouring blanket negative thoughts about SS.

I understand your point about evidence nightowl and how important it is. I think that is what swung it for us. I do hope nannynoo is allowed to show how happy the child is with her because that is vital evidence surely.

Yes, please don't make a bad situation worse nannynoo. Listen to what those with experience and compassion are telling you. I do believe you are strong enough to take on the role of carer to your GS despite (or perhaps because of) what you have been through.
You just need to be calm, politely assertive and provide evidence that you are able to cope.

I think it is vital I stay calm and grounded - I think that is what everyone is saying after all

It is a scary situation dealing with the powers that be whose yay or nay can impact my Grandsons ( and mine ) future happiness but I understand any concerns must be addressed and am happy for them to do that

I have a feeling I may have to go through the wringer in the months ahead and I am prepared for that and willing for that to happen , but if I concentrate on being and staying well and in a good place permanently it can do nothing but help

I do have my own feelings around the social worker who has our case , that cannot be helped and it helps me to offload the feelings elsewhere rather than directly on this forum - I am only human too and have to keep it real but at the end of the day I 100% have my Grandsons best interests at heart and this is what has to be looked into further if they are not satisfied at present , yes I wish they were of course! But the fact is they are not so I have to work with them to resolve any issues or concerns they have

It is difficult to ''show'' that I myself have no concerns about my ability to give him a calm , safe and stable enviroment on a full time daily basis but I have to listen to and address their concerns and hopefully work together to resolve them with the best possible outcome for my Grandson which would be for him to happily be with me and I do feel I have / will have the resources..

Not sure if I can use the word ''happy'' but he is happy and content and relaxed and secure with me and I know him like the back of my hand and it is an emotional subject because of the above and the bond of love we have built up over the past 7 years , but everything has to be clear re his future safety and well being on a daily basis and I understand that completely xx

Will they take EVERYTHING into account eg me understanding his Autism and the way he likes things to be , his routine , the things to avoid as they trigger distress , what keeps him calm etc?

He HATES having jumpers and tops pulled over his head so you have to make an opening with your hands and he pops his head through happily :-)

He hates being without socks as he finds the pressure around his feet comforting

When he says ''batter-fly'' every one thinks he is saying ''butterfly'' but he is actually saying ''traffic light'' as he LOVES traffic lights and I bought him a traffic light toy which he takes to bed with him but costs a fortune in batteries! lol

I know any safety issues have to be COMPLETELY addressed and I agree with that 100% plus all his needs being met which I do anyway , plus me being in a good position to provide consistent care and in a good , stable place permanently , but despite the bereavement emotions and the impact of my daughters drinking on the family , I WAS in a very good place , I was happy , calm , relaxed and content and that is the real me

I can't say I don't need a good few more weeks to be back at that place , but glad am in the process of that happening x

There is something else I would like to share with you all and ask about

My Grandsons Aunt on my DD's Dads side has come forward and said she will have him full time , my DD asked her to after they said no to me as she does not want him going into foster care and I understand that

The Aunt has not been close to the family , she never visits my Grandson or phones to find out how she is , she sees him at family gatherings about 3 times a year but has never looked after him alone

Will this impact on my chances of having my Grandson myself?

I wanted his Aunt and Uncle at the family conference which is coming up but purely as babysitters on a regular basis to give me a break from time to time

His Aunt does not know him and her parenting is different to ours eg ours is warm and loving with heaps of affection whereas hers is more austere which worries me actually , my Grandson is not close to her and there is no real bond , yes she is a teacher and works with children but that does not mean she understands my Grandson or his needs

I am going to lay it out there - I do NOT think my Grandson would be happy with her , the opposite actually , as everything is more regimental and without warmth

He has a routine with me but there are lots of cuddles and he lays next to me on the settee ( yes I am ALWAYS squashed! lol ) and puts his head on my shoulder and we relax like that together while he watches TV , we play , he has tickles and I chase him round the room in a game we play and he is just so HAPPY

Another worry and possible heart ache

She has a job and I don't so don't know if that will count against me?

I was planning on doing housework , washing and cooking during the day as well as having a little rest ;-)

She lost her brother and Mum 6 months ago ( the 1st 2 bereavements I was talking about ) and she told me recently every day was like waking up in a nightmare so she is understandably still feeling it

I'm scared :-(

I have worked with children in the past as a childminder for SS which I was paid by SS for , was a registered childminder , worked in a family centre as a project worker as well as a special assistant in a school for a child with learning difficulties and was going back to college to become a childminder for children with special needs when the bed bugs hit , but none of that 'counts' I suppose but I don't want to get into a competitive situation or argue with her at the conference , just want whats best for my Grandson as always , but what is my position with this?

Thanks! x

I think that all you have been saying in the last two posts "counts" nannynoo. You have a clear track record of child care skills and that has to be relevant.

More relevant though is you intimate understanding of your GS's needs. If I were you I would list all the items that you have listed above - examples of how you understand his speech etc. - list all those little things (however long the list) that the SWs themselves will not be aware of. This will indicate the closeness of your relationship and your detailed awareness of his needs.

If he is 7 years old then he will be asked what he wants even though his ability to communicate his response might be impaired.

My guess - and I could be quite wrong as I do not have all the facts - is that the concerns might be less about your fitness as a person and more around their awareness that your emotions must be torn between your DGS and your DD. A professional carer in the form of a foster carer will have no such problems, and this could be where the problem lies.

I say again - list the strategies for each possible confrontational scenario that you can imagine. Tell them clearly what you would plan to do. List your awareness of your GS's idiosyncracies (?sp!). List your backup in terms of friends and relatives - tell them how you plan to make it possible to deal with the stress of an autistic child whilst still surviving yourself.

Put it all down on paper. You will then be able to send copies to Director of SSD for your area if that becomes the next sensible move after reasonable discussion with the SW.

You will inevitably be feeling angry and disappointed with your SW. If you can try and put that on one side, the chances of you succeeding are far greater. Put yourself in his/her position and try and think what their concerns might be - and make sure you say that you understand their position. Reasonable dialogue will be the way forward.

Good advice.

nannynoo, I feel for you, what a dreadful time you are going through! I have no professional experience to offer, just that of being a mother and grandmother. I would have thought not having a job would give you an advantage, so that you are always available. It sounds to me like you would be the ideal person to care for him, due to your special connection with him and work experience.
You are expressing yourself well on here, so maybe it would help to put your thoughts into words for the SS to read and keep on record, so that nothing you say at the conference, should you get flustered, can be misinterpreted or forgotten.
Sending you wishes for a positive outcome for your GS.

The above post by Mishap are very good advice.
I agree with Shysal re not working outside the home, being there full-time to provide a loving home is a good thing imo, and all your previous experience should be considered too.

I was going to ask if they take the child's views and wishes into consideration. Mishap has answered that.

As always Mishap has given good advice.

You do have support letters from your DGS's psychologist, support worker, etc don't you?
I think cases often get turned down in the first instance and then are approved on appeal. At least that's how it seems to work around here.

(Could your DD have put a spanner in the works by giving the impression you supported her more than you do?)

I have PM'd Nannynooand she knows that I am supporting her. It's nothing to do with 'blanket negative thoughts' as someone has said, but of being realistic.You have to know how to deal with the SS, as Greenfinch has said ' to stand up to them' in a calm way.We are not just talking about 'unpopular decisions ' either.They will not understand autism at all ,I won't bore you all with the way my autistic grandson was treated by them, but needless to say, they don't have a clue.I have said what I wanted to, and will now only PM Nannynoo and not post on this thread.My daughter only succeeded with SS by putting all emotions on hold, writing every thing down and having witnesses to what was said and by standing up to them . It's a wonder she didn't have a nervous breakdown.I'm sure that some poor mothers do!

SWs are presented daily with plausible liars who wish to abuse children. They have to be wary. It is a tricky road to tread between being supportive and friendly but aware of how easy it is to be taken in. I am not suggesting for one moment that nanynoo falls into that category, but trying to point out what a tricky job it is. Society expects much from its SWs and contributes little in the way of funding for excellent training and support.

Nannynoo needs to explicitly say to them that she understands why they might have reservations - that way there is the possibility of some sort of dialogue. It is not a question of standing up to them, but of thinking about where they are coming from and what their duties are. Quietly assertive with all facts marshalled and at your fingertips is the way to go.

It is hard to do, I realise, as the power balance is an uncomfortable one for anyone in nannynoo's situation and I truly feel for her - but if SWs did not have that power, then many more children would be put at risk.