Sleeping issues

I would suggest Mumsnet - there will already be many threads on this topic which may help or she ( or you) could start your own. Hop over and have a look

I will pm you.

ClareAB. First things first if baby is thriving and developing well in all other aspects then she should not be needing night time feeds of any sort. Mum and Dad first of all need to 'train' her to sleep through. Babies are not born knowing they have to sleep through the night its up to Mum and Dad to reduce feeds and widen the gaps and that's usually done by 12 months. The longer they leave it the more GD will be self aware and the harder it will be.
Then GD needs to be in her own bed/cot and that's usually achieved earlier. Babies need to feel content in their own beds, they need to fall asleep in their own environment, wake up sometimes and have learnt that all is well and they can get back to sleep. What's happened here is that GD has almost trained her parents to continue the baby stage longer than needed. Back in the old days of strict Health Visitors they would boss you about to separate yourself, wean of the breast much earlier and create a healthy happy night time environment for the developing child. Can remember having my 2nd and the Midwife was so impressed that baby was in next room in her cot by the time she signed me off. With doors left open it was just as easy to put baby straight into cot after feeds and she quickly became accustomed to that. After a few nights I fed and changed her in the dark....it was all about reducing the level of stimulus and making the whole thing very cursory. Can remember she explained it along the lines of if you nurse them back to sleep they will never learn to fall asleep themselves and if the wake up in the night (as of course they do) they soon feel something is wrong i.e. you are not there and wake fully and cry. You DD needs some good strategies and the confidence to stick with them. A health professional or perhaps even a private nursery nurse needs to go through what they need to do in small steps. She and her husband really need to be back in the same bed. Sleep deprivation is not used as a form of torture for nothing they must be at their wit's end.

Extended breastfeeding plus co-sleeping/bedsharing. Oh boy. That's quite the bundle.

Would agree with suggestion of Mumsnet where these things are discussed constantly.

In addition, five feeds a night at 22 months aren't feeding for nutrition by that stage, she is nursing for comfort.

But yes, Mumsnet.

Definitely comfort nursing and not feeding.

Some parents find it hard to let go of this close tie - but at the expense of other important close ties.

This child needs to be helped to be a part of a family with all the give and take that this entails. At the moment she is queen bee with everyone dancing to her tune. It is time to stop this - and she will need hep to do this. They need to start settling her without a feed at night - it will take time and she will not like it I am afraid, but it has to be done.

The parents need to be in their bed together and getting cuddles - and more - but they cannot do this under these circumstances.

Do up a room for the child - involve her in choosing stuff - make her feel like a big girl. Wow! - you ate nearly 2 now - time to have your own bed, and time to stop breast-feeding.

I could weep when I see these parents sacrificing their whole lives to their children to assuage their guilt and do he done thing.

I confess that my little ones were in their own rooms when a few weeks old and the night feeds dropped off very quickly. Bad mother!!!

First of all, don’t despair! Your little grandaughter is comfort feeding, and in order to stop she needs to be happy and secure in her own sleeping space. She is old enough to enjoy novelty, so her parents could make a nice bedroom for her and encourage her to play in her cot for a short while during the day. Then they could encourage her to take her daytime naps in there. Cut out the last breast feed at night before her bedtime ( Bath, story cuddle first) an replace with a drink of milk. If she wakes in the night, briefly offer a feed- no lights on, no talking, be boring. Then start taking it in turns just to go in and reassure her, but don’t feed. Let her have a dummy, suck her thumb, have a favourite toy or blanket. She hasn’t learnt to self- soothe yet, so she may need some help. A dummy, if used just to soothe at night, won’t hurt her. It will take a week or two.

I should add that my second daughter had this problem with her baby at 15 months. I t took three weeks to cut out the nighttime breast feeds. She has a nighttime cuddly toy.

the wee baby is having a laugh! Sorry but Mum and Dad need to knock this on the head.

A nearly 2 year old does not need food throughout the night.

This has reminded me of younger daughter when aged about 3.....the one I said I had put straight into her cot. She had a cold which was giving her a bit of a night time cough. She awoke distressed and I went into her room administered some mild cough mixture and sat beside her a little while whilst she calmed down which seemed to be taking a while. I was working and needed to be up early so a disturbed night was not really welcome. I weakened and offered her a chance to get into bed with us.
She leaped at the chance and I must admit I enjoyed the extra cuddles and was just drifting off when I felt her wriggling and heard the words....'Mummy can I PLEASE get back to my own bed I'm not comfy?'. Hey ho....of she trotted and we both got a half decent night's sleep.

Honestly they need to be content in their own beds, not a case of being a bad mother Luckygirl!

Oh Hilda W I loved your memories of feeding in the dark in the next bedroom! Must admit we had our daughter next to our bed at first but I heard every sigh and burp after I’d fed her and consequently couldn’t sleep so we moved her into her own bedroom and left the doors open. I also insisted my husband didn’t get up with me (to make some tea, bless) as it just prolonged the whole thing when the object was to get us back to sleep ASAP! Happy days!

Thank you for all your replies. One of the most frustrating things as Granny is to be asked for advice, and for that advice to be completely ignored whilst they continue to suffer.
Another knock on from this is that because she is still breast feeding day and night, she eats very very little solid food. DIL has lost so much weight, size 8 is hanging off her, and she's a tall girl.
At what point do minor concerns become major? I've maintained supportive neutrality , but is it ever wise to say you're worried?

Well, she has them both well trained!
At nearly two she definitely doesn't need night-time feeds; it may be comfort but it is more likely just habit.

I confess that my little ones were in their own rooms when a few weeks old and the night feeds dropped off very quickly. Bad mother!!!

I know fashions change with parenting but babies don't change. None of mine needed night feeds after about 3 months and were all in their own rooms by about 4-5months.

Mumsnetters may have some good answers and more modern ideas!

I think it's imperative to get her on to solid food; we have a child in the wider family who apparently missed this 'window of opportunity' because she was ill (according to doctors and health visitors) and she is still an extremely fussy eater years later.

she eats very very little solid food
but that is because she is still breastfeeding on demand!
Can they not see that?

I think they can't see the wood for the trees. She's their first child, they're both in their thirties, and I think they are petrified of hurting her or seeing her cry.
She's a little darling, but she does seem to be in charge of the show!

Gosh ClareAB what a dilemma. Its all down to the relationship you have with DIL. If its an open honest one and you have rarely made such a personal comment perhaps it has come to a time where you should raise your fears. Probably not politic to just launch into it but when the discussion comes around to sleepless nights etc you could say something like....'in all seriousness I do worry that you are putting a bit too much pressure on yourself, you have given baby a wonderful start but now is the time to worry about your own health.
I am no expert on this, I can distinctly remember getting to a point during breast feeding of just wanting my body back. It was a powerful feeling that kicked in at about 9 months after each of the births. Its almost as if I woke up and went no!....these boobs are mine (and perhaps my DHs) and not yours anymore. There could be a case of even thinking your DIL is using the baby's needs as a cover for something. Is she secretly afraid of returning to full 'wifely' duties...Yes I am aware that's a ghastly pre-liberation term but some women do fear getting back to being a lover to their DHs if the birth was a bit of a nightmare and the recovery was a tough ride. Once again it was something my Midwife raised with me, I though she was being a bit callous but it needed to be said, and if truth be told, once I was over a slight worry of 'has it all gone back properly' I was mad keen to resume!
Only you know what your DIL is like so its in your court. Of course her own Mum might have similar worries....any chance of you two putting your heads together? Then there could also be the idea of an approach from your H....to his son....father to father as it were. All the best and I do hope this young couple can move on to the next stage of their journey. Having fun with their child.

I think you're right, and there are other worries that are clouding the issue. I have a good relationship with my DIL and I try to see her at least once a week to go for lunch, shopping or help her practically. I'm so anxious myself about being 'that mother in law' that I hesitate to offer advice, unless they ask for it, and then, if I'm honest, I sugar coat it hugely as I don't want them to feel criticised.
My ex- MIL was not a kind woman and I would hate for any of my DIL (I have 3) to feel the way I did as a young mum.
This is my first grand child, and it's a mine field!

Oh ClareAB I feel for you. My own experience of MIL's was thankfully short but am aware its a mine field. That being said there is a huge difference between someone who is genuinely a nasty person (who just happens to be a MIL) and a worried concerned decent person like yourself who also happens to be a MIL. If deep down you are just wanting the best for this little family then I am sure no one will think any the worse of you even if you do say a little more than you are used to. The history of your developing relationship will stand you in good stead. You've been careful and tactful till now so just be yourself. I'm sure you would not be the type to visit new DIL's new home and only point out the cobwebs.....happened to me! All the best.

Everything they do, they do out of love, but it's hard to see them suffering, knowing that the answer is relatively simple.
Well, simple in theory...

There does seem to be a modern fear of upsetting a child, not letting them cry or protest. As parents we do sometimes have to be the 'bad guy' as in say no and mean it or guide their behaviours and instincts for their own good. We ensure they can cross a road or know not to put a knife in a toaster. Its part of being the parent, taking the responsibility to show them the right path. Allowing a young child to cry themselves to sleep is daunting, its easier when they are very young, you just ask yourself are they fed, safe, clean and warm? If the answer is yes then you do almost put your fingers in your ears....for a few minutes anyway and let them get bored and fall asleep. Its upsetting at the time but next time it happens the crying stops sooner and off they go. Of course its TOTALLY different if they are hungry or unwell or if older having a bad dream but eventually a pattern will develop and they will sleep. A child's early development needs good quality sleep and in a way they are denying that. Love is wonderful and thankfully they are loving parents but at the same time they are parents and with that comes the responsibility to nurture the child all the way through to the ultimate goal of all parents...to enable our darling children to eventually stand alone and function happily and confidently without us.

I talked to my daughter about this because she breast fed her first child until he was almost 3. For occasional comfort though rather than nutrition. It was his ‘special cuddle’.

Anyway, she suggested this article might be of use because it suggests a number of options for stopping toddler night feeding. Her own solution was to temporarily hand over all nighttime interaction with the child to her husband. No boobies available. That’s one of the options outlined.

themilkmeg.com/the-night-boob-how-to-gently-night-wean-your-toddler-from-breastfeeding-and-bed-sharing/

Thank you one and all. Some great comments and advice

If she's not eating much in the way of solids could you suggest (gently and carefully) that, although breast milk is excellent food, children of that age need solid foods to get all the nutrients they need for good development?
That is what I would find most worrying, that she's not eating a varied enough diet.

Good luck.

Suggest to your DIL giving her DD shorter and shorter feeds. Less suckling will lead to less production of milk and eventually your GD won't bother as it won't be worth it. DS should distract the child when feeding stopped.