I love Sarah Champion!

It's up to Corbyn and the far left nightowl . She has now criticised the left for not doing enough, she is for the chop

I lovecheese - But the trouble is that people could see the "minority group" as all muslim men, not just the abusers.

OK, I'll be contentious.

Muslim men groomed and abused young girls. It's been happening for years and been ignored and covered up. Innocent Muslim men who abhor what some in their community have been doing have to stand up against their brothers (NOT Sarah Champion!) and speak out.

Sensible people, those who bother think, know and understand that SOME Muslim men are evil and twisted, not all.

Most people with brain cells know Sarah Champion didn't castigate all Muslim men for these crimes.

Rather than see the female MP as the villain of the piece shouldn't we be expecting more from the communities which shield these evil men? If all Muslim men are offended by Sarah Champion's remarks, well, boo hoo! They can put the record straight and condemn the Muslim men who committed the crimes.

It's amazing how the loony Left can spin this incident and all of a sudden a woman who didn't choose her words carefully enough in speaking out against such awful evil (perpetrated by Muslim men) is the one to suffer and be found wanting.

It's almost beyond belief the Labour party has cast out Sarah Champion for her honesty and bravery in speaking up. I imagine most people whatever their political leanings applaud Champion for daring to mention the elephant in the room.

But we mustn't upset Muslim men.

I suspect most right-thinking Muslim men abhor the way others of their faith think and behave. I'd like to see them defending her stance rather than playing the 'racist' card.

"Sensible people, those who bother think, know and understand that SOME Muslim men are evil and twisted, not all. "
But people who belong to the BNP or similar groups are not sensible.

For most people there are political parties, and then there are strange groups like the BNP and the likes of the long gone (?) Monster Raving Loony Party. Neither wield much clout and neither are taken very seriously. Most people know what the BNP stand for and dismiss them. They are already on a racist bandwagon so their reaction to the Yorkshire abusers will be par for the course.

Why would anyone worry about inflaming the racist BNP when they aren't reasonable or fair people to start with? Their reaction to any incident is predictable.

I am more much more worried about Corbyn's Labour Party trying to silence a concerned MP who isn't in the least racist.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". What are the good men in the Muslim community - in Rotherham or anywhere else - doing to stamp out the evil in the midst of their community, whether it be sexual abuse of white girls or radicalisation of their vulnerable youth? If their integrity is indeed being called into question, let us see them do something other than pay lip service to the wrong that is being done, rather than sitting back in the belief that their position as a racial group in our society is now so untouchable that they cannot be subjected to any criticism. It is the elephant in the room. Mealy mouthed politicians and liberal commentators of all persuasions and none have simply entrenched this view, and Sarah Champion is to be applauded for refusing to be one of them.

No, nightowl, the integrity of most Muslims has not been brought into question by anything Sarah Champion has said. She has very clearly stressed that most sexual abuse in Britain is by white men (not surprising as most of the population is white) but that in certain cities the vast (VAST) majority of the grooming gangs in question have been British Pakistani men. Stating facts like this is telling the truth. Truth is necessary to tackle problems like this and if people feel upset by the truth, so be it.

I haven't had any requests for full copies of the articles linked to. This presumably means that people have (a) read them or (b) are making erroneous assumptions about what SC has actually said.

I think all this nit picking about whether Sarah Champion should have inserted the word 'some' into her original article is just detracting from the fact that we have a problem and noone can, or dares, to address it.

She is right to say that the 'south' has a 'right-on' attitude that bears no relationship to the real lives of real people.

As I said on the other thread, not one of the Muslim people who were interview were concerned about the article but were concerned about the issue.

I think the problem is not what Sarah Champion said - although the insertion of the word 'some' might have helped- it is the reinterpretation of those words by those who seek to stir up racial tension in the country, and particularly in cities, that is the problem. I was talking to a young Kurdish man yesterday, he isn't a practising Muslim, but comes from a Muslim family and he thought there have been more expressions of hate and racism than ever there were in the past. I think those who equate the silence of the Muslim community on this are in fact adding fuel to the fire. You could just as well ask how many of the Catholic community openly spoke out against child abuse when priests were found guilty of abuse- gasp of astonishment, why should they need to? Surely it is understood that they don't approve of it. In which case the same judgement should be applied to the Muslim community.
In my opinion the failure of the British establishment to deal with this matter, the lack of real support and services for vulnerable girls (which has worsened because of austerity) are equally as important as the groups of men who have perpetrated this abuse and rather than only looking at the men we should be asking how we can make sure that these young girls are given the support a civilised society owes them.

In my opinion the failure of the British establishment to deal with this matter, the lack of real support and services for vulnerable girls (which has worsened because of austerity) are equally as important as the groups of men who have perpetrated this abuse and rather than only looking at the men we should be asking how we can make sure that these young girls are given the support a civilised society owes them.

"Austerity" is another issue altogether. That is a diversionary left wing tactic to manoeuvre the discussion down an another avenue, and you know it.

The fact remains that many Muslim men in our society do not respect women and those without a moral and law-abiding code abuse women as they have. It's disgusting and disgraceful and in a civilised society men like this (from any background) should be aware it will not be tolerated.

We should not have to tiptoe around the issue because Muslim men are involved and because Corbyn's left wingers are more concerned about a minority group and not rocking the boat than supporting an MP who has bravely raised an important cultural issue which should concern us all.

I do agree Day6,

The first convictions in Rotherham were 2010, was austerity to blame?

Yes there is a lack of care but to equal this with the men who abuse is wrong , sounds more like an excuse for the abusers

EDL loves Sarah Champion as well.

I think some posters are just so fond of Jeremy Corbyn that they can't bear any criticism, so will say anything at all to obfuscate/absolve/distract from the fact that Sarah Champion was right to speak out.She is a good Labour MP and as a woman, given the subject matter, it is shaming that women on this forum are trying to shove it all under the carpet.

Is that all you can find to say dj?!!!! Presumably that makes the demotion of this excellent woman ok?!

Quite lemongrove and nigglynellie.

Anything to sling another unfounded insult. Nice ?

Don't report it, fellow gransnetters. Leave it there for all to see. It harms the slinger, not the one slung at.

There are many men in our society who don't respect women not just men who are Muslim.
Day6 and Annie the first austerity measures were introduced in 2008. The effect -"The austerity programme included reductions in welfare spending, the cancellation of school building programs, reductions in local government funding, and an increase in VAT."
So there will be no more sex workers, no where for the girls to go, no-one to provide them with support and contraceptives. There are also less police on the streets. How can this not affect the situation?
I don't think asking for better help for these girls is 'excusing abusers', more support would lead to more convictions. Focussing on the abusers, not recognising why these girls are vulnerable to such men and not acting to counter this and provide support makes all of us complicit in this abuse. It is of course much easier to make accusations and attribute blame. Far from wanting anything "shoved under the carpet" lemongrove I want there to be more provision and help, more cases reported, more prosecutions and more convictions and sadly just labelling people does absolutely nothing to achieve this.

We all want what you want, trisher. We also want members of grooming gangs to be arrested, charged and convicted of the crimes they've committed and for those crimes not to be covered up out of fear of offence.

Which is what happened in Rotherham.

"Which" being the covering up.

And Sarah Champion said most crimes of sexual abuse are committed by white men in this country. That isn't the issue. That's out in the open. The particular horror of British Pakistani men grooming and abusing white girls was covered up. No point beating about the bush with that. It's a problem and it needs to be confronted to be dealt with.

If it had been white men grooming and abusing British Pakistani girls in the same way, it would have been called out straight away for the disgusting crime that it is.

It wasn't "fear of offence" that caused the cover up Baggs it was the attitude of those in charge to the girls themselves. They were effectively regarded as unreliable, immoral and unworthy. If you saw the programme one of the girls was described at the age of 15 as a prostitute. It was only the excellent sex worker who said there are no child prostitutes they are abused children. Only when attitudes like hers are the norm not the exception will these girls be really protected. I think in focussing on the racial origins of the men and not the appalling attitude that was present in ALL the professionals who dealt with these girls Sarah Champion has (probably without thinking) shifted the focus, probably to the relief of many in positions of authority.
We shouldn't be asking what race or religion these men are, we should be asking why were they able to do what they did and putting in measures to protect and support the victims.

Yes, blame anyone but not the abusers.

If Corbyn had defended Sarah Champion instead of sacking her how different some posts would be.

So you would rather have statements made about racial origins than see a proper support and investigation process? I call that ignoring the victims, and failing them yet again.

Nothing to do with Corbyn, everything to do with girls who behave in ways that many find unacceptable and who suffer and are vulnerable because of this.