cut out of thier lives 2

Hey there Celebgran didn't see your last post because I was too busy boring everybody with my own . Good job you took Rosie for a long walk as you're currently into compulsive eating. I'm into compulsive boozing but only until January 2nd when I begin my long and arduous campaign to loose weight and look good for my son when we go to Aus. in April.

Thank you so much for your love and support. well if you're indulging these are just what you need.

Hope you're OK Yogagirl get Celebgran to share the and , I'm sure she wont mind

Whenim smileless did put post telling us roughly what happened.

I would imagine to get Xmas present stick back through letter box accompanied with rude note when he lives so close would have upset and inflamed the calmest of people.

We are always going through what we may or may not have said done to
Provoke then hate vendetta from our s I law and daughter .

The fact is none of us are perfect I know I can be critical and am a perfectionist and if someone upsets or annoys me I feel urge to let them know, not always a wise move.

Irony is my daughter was quick tempered and very similar to me, other Thani could never ever have inflicted this pain on anyone least of all my own parents.

The last time oh saw our daughter on sept 21st and s I law mouthed off and refused let him see new baby or indeed other 2 little girls she asked her dad was I still in denial? Of what?

I totally agree smiless I would never ever had dreamt our daughter who we supported for 28 years inc 4 years at uni could have been capable of hurting us to this indescribable level.

My crime was to read a text from her friend running me down!
That was trigger factor but ever since her marriage the warning signs were there we were on egg shells and her in laws were apparently so much better than us ie the dad out work for 11 years until he was forced to get my as benefits cut her dad my oh has always worked so hard still is at 68 so no there are. No similarities.

Let's pray we all come to accept what we can't change and hope for peace Jin our hearts if a joyful reunion is not possible yet.

Interesting smiless that you agree from personal experience that is important to keep up some contact even if just cards.
I don't know hint had strength to fight it as our daughter got us interviewed by police for send her a birthday card and wedding anniversary card!
It was put before cps before being thrown out and I had letter printed in mail about it.

We now have official permission to send cards presents on special occasions!
We sadly feel too dispirited to go over with Xmas
PResents they are all gift wrapped will wit until after my heart scan.

Hello whenim64 I'm so pleased that you are now back in contact with your son and thank you for your good wishes. The reason I chose that particular phrase is because my s and his wife have been telling the most outrageous lies about me over the last 18 months.

I haven't actually spoken to my son since the 30th of September 2012. I always had a mutually respectful and honest relationship with both of my sons, encouraging and allowing them to say whatever was on their minds. We would talk things through and the at the very least agree to disagree. Thankfully I still have this relationship with my other son.

I do not believe giving my son the opportunity of saying to my face what he has been saying about me behind my back is confrontational and hostile. I think it is important for him to face up to what he has done and continues to do. Having a face to face altercation with me, however unpleasant that will be for both of us, may enable him to do so.

Forcing our Christmas gift and card to our gs through our letter box, together with his nasty note, is both confrontational and hostile. That is not the behavior of some one who wishes to engage, that is the behavior of some one who wishes to hurt.

He has cut us out of his life and we haven't been allowed to see our gs who will be 2 in just over a week since he was 8 months old. How can things be any worse?

Hi celebgran you probably remember the continual harsh actions and insults we endured from ex-DIL before my son got access and joint parenting restored during his divorce proceedings. Yes, it's so hard to desist from retaliating to provocation from the people who have power over whether grandchildren can be seen, and I once wobbled and told ex-DIL I hated what she was doing to alienate grandson from his dad. She upped her campaign of cold revenge to punish me for asserting myself and I now feel, on reflection, it wasn't worth me saying it. I was very careful after that, bit my tongue and left it to the court process and time to sort things out. Hostility only served to feed her need to use grandson as a weapon, and I wouldn't engage in that. Children just need stability and calm. I suppose I'm making a plea to keep things civil for the sake of the children who may inadvertently hear or see adults behaving in ways that confuse and upset them.

I posted small gifts to my grandson, and cards to let him know I was thinking about him and hoping he was enjoying school, trips out etc. After we were reunited, when he was 12, he commented that children know who they can trust not to let them down. He took that issue to heart and has commented about trust and reliability a few times. Those Gransnetters who might have to wait a while before they see their grandchildren again are having a tough time, which could be even tougher if the adults were antagonising each other, too.

I do hope things settle down again, smileless. Exchanging notes that hurt must leave you feeling such sorrow and turmoil.

Sorry, smileless our posts crossed.

I stopped reading this thread, because I found it was becoming a support group for a small number of people, who share a similar view about their circumstances, with the result that I felt it was unlikely that a more reflective look at family break down would be welcome. I am relieved to see some new comments on this thread, that acknowledge the sadness the regular posters express, but suggest a more reflective approach may help.

I haven't posted about my own painful situation until now. I am doing so because I wonder how many other gransnet contributors are out there, struggling with the pain of fractured relationships with adult children, who feel unable to join this thread because despite the pain that comes with being rejected by adult children, they don't see it as a situation where only one side of the argument is the right side.

One of our children cut herself off from us, and the extended family after worries about her lifestyle led to a series of confrontations. We were able to maintain our relationship with her children, though it was very complicated and I won't go into the detail. The result is that trust between myself and my daughter has been damaged and we remain stuck in a situation where there is no current possibility of beginning to rebuild trust.

Our grandchildren are now in their teens, and we are lucky to have loving relationships with them. They, of course lived through the events that led to their mother's relationship with the rest of the family breaking down. It was dreadful for all the adults involved, so must have been even worse for the children. I am relieved that they seem to be able to continue to love their mum, and the rest of their family, despite the continued difficulties. The whole family has, of course, been affected by what happened. Wouldn't it be something if we could find a way to rebuild these shattered relationships, for the benefit mainly of the children, but also for all those involved.

Thanks for posting your story, Iam64. You have said what I was clumsily trying to get across. Keeping a dignified silence and continuing to be there and ready to support all those involved, even the one(s) who are antagonising and provoking trouble, is not easy to do but when there's an opportunity to create or maintain a relationship with the children until things improve, or even whilst they stay fractured, it overrides our feelings of the injustice of it all.

It's good to see this thread opening out for new posters to receive support, too. My first venture on to Gransnet, a few days after it started up, was a result of me trawling the net to look for grandparents' support groups. It became a safe place to vent my feelings, hear about other people in a similar situation, and to share small steps of progress. There have been quite a few happy outcomes since then.

Iam64, I'm sorry to hear that you too, have experienced the estrangement of a daughter, but glad that you've been able to bring yourself to talk about it here.
Some of you will be aware that my own daughter estranged herself for several years, then for 3 years came back into my life again. I cannot describe the absolute joy of this, but I'm sure many here will understand this. I often felt as if I was walking on eggshells when I visited her, but was careful not to 'overstep' so that I didn't re-create any problems.
In May this year she was attacked. Everything has fallen back into the same miserable state because she is blaming me for saying something that I didn't.
She (once again) no longer wishes to have anything to do with me, and when I received her message, I honestly thought I was going mad. I was so terribly upset and couldn't understand where it was all coming from. However, what I did do, was to contact all the relevant authorities connected with the incident and have taken copies of all emails and letters I have received. I have them in an envelope along with my own letter to her. I haven't been able to make that final move yet though. I just know that the envelope will be ripped up before she reads anything inside it, and while I still have the envelope with me, there's still hope.
While I was away for Christmas (we did this partly because I couldn't bear not to be able to visit her) I met another woman whose son had estranged himself from her. We spoke about our feelings and I think we really did help each other. One awful thing, though, is that she has been very ill. He was informed of this and he still did nothing to contact her, though most of the problems seem to be due to issues with his wife - which is often the case.
Being able to speak about the despair we're feeling does help so much. It's no comfort to know others suffer but it's a comfort to know we're not alone. Not by any means.

Marelli that is very sad, I think I would feel in was losing. My sanity if joyful time came when I was reunited and then it all happened again,

Iam64 not quite sure what you mean this thread is supposed to support anyone! A lot of other threads don't seem to respond to new posters.

Certainly neither I or anyone else seek to blame anyone for our sadness.

It is extremely hard to be totally rejected and anyone who is still seeing their grandchildren would not be able to relate to the never ending pain.
Another lady I. Same boat told me once (was her daughter too) that there is non pain like it and I tend. To agree.

The start of another year and I wake up at night and feel physically sick inside that I can't see or speak to. My daughter and 5 years is long time.

Hard to have a balance view of what she has put us her loving parents through. To my dying day I will not understand other than we presume brainwashing has occurred by. Our son I law given her was one who involved police and abused by husband each time and prevented our daughter speaking freely to him despite her wanting to.

We just have to accept situations that we cannot change and pray for the peace of mind that we have done all we can.
That is the hardest thing to Capet that we can't change thing,

Yes whenim I remember was hell for you so glad it turned out ok in end.

Marelli I hope your daughter at least looks at your pack of letters when you decide to pass them on to her. It's heartbreaking to be treated like this, especially when she's been given misinformation. (((Hugs)))

Iam64 you say one side or argument in our case we have not had any contact In Any way shape or form from our daughter only via police to say she wants nothing more to do with us. The last text 5 years ago said she had new family now and promptly changed her phone no landline changed 3 times!

Her brother was given a no, but he refuses to contact her now after then
Pain she has put us through. Initially she texted him photos of our beloved Grandaughter and he spent day with her after s I law involved police.
Now he says we are better off without such an evil person in our lives and I can follow that but she will always be. MY daughter and she has. Y 3 Gra daughters.

We would love to see her point of view if she would talk to us! She absolutely or rather her husband did refused mediation.

Morning ladies. Hello Iam64 it is good to know that despite the family problems you have experienced you are able to enjoy a loving relationship with your grandchildren but also so sad that you remain estranged from your daughter. As you say it would be truly wonderful if these shattered relationships could be rebuilt for all who have been affected by the pain and misery that family divisions create.

We are all different and when we read each others' posts we are only privy to the tip of the ice berg. None of us can fully disclose everything that has happened but it is comforting to know that on this forum we can not only receive support from others, but hopefully give support in return.

Like you whenim64 in the few months I have been on this forum I have found it a safe place to vent my feelings and it is good to hear of others' small steps of progress, even when there is no progress in ones own situation.

I'm sure that now Christmas has been and gone things will begin to settle down; thank you whenim64. When you're in this situation, Christmas makes everything feel more raw; you feel as if you're wearing your nerves on the outside and you become ultra sensitive. I started to watch 'Up' last night but had to turn it over because I was finding it too upsetting! Not good when a cartoon bird calling for it's young and being caught in a net can reduce you to tears .

As we all struggle to come to terms with our various situations and find a way of moving forward, we will not always agree with each other but for me personally, all contributions are appreciated.

Hope you Celebgran and Yogagirl are OK. When is your heart scan Celebgran? Good idea no delay taking Christmas presents over until you've got the scan out of the way.

We have here today and a lovely blue sky. I hope the {sunshine]s for all of you today.

Whoops try again I hope the s for all of you today. That's better.

That's the problem isn't it Marelli, when our children simply don't want to listen to what we have to say. You must have been posting at the same time as me, as was Celebgran.

I hope that one day you will be able to give your daughter all the correspondence you have gathered together and that she will be prepared to read it and then see that you did nothing wrong.

thats so true smileless being the tip of the iceberg..theres so much complexity going on with every single grandparent and its dealt with the best way we can deal with it for each one of us...i truly hope things will get better for us all in 2014... xx

Hear, hear, Dollie. I always say that things can turn on a sixpence and circumstances in one person's life can change to such an extent that there is a knock on effect for others, so I hope things change for all you Gransnetters who come to share their feelings, good advice and news on this thread.

Thanks smileless my scan is o. 7th jan so only week or so to wait, felt very breathless yesterday but did get stressed bluetoothing last photos of our beloved g daughter from old phones, not really sensible.

Have altered client from Tom to tues as oh work then. Got sore throat today how annoying! Not being ill again!

Well said whenim we all must try keep some hope alive better get off here make up o. And off for lunch with my twin and partner. Better.not be late about hour away in long Medford.

Happy peaceful day to you all

I think Whenim64's words 'keeping a dignified silence whilst continuing to be there' are very wise. (Not easy though). When I was feeling left out and side-lined I made the mistake of 'having a go' at my DD. I was going through a very bad time myself at the time and sort of 'lost it'. It was the worst possible thing I could have done. We are still speaking thankfully but things are not as they were. I should have kept my thoughts and feelings to myself. I realise now that I was feeling sorry for myself and a bit lost - my problem, not hers.

From the time they're born and screaming for attention, through school and teens our children constantly push the boundaries knowing and secure that they are loved and no matter how hard they push, all will be well in the end. Now they're adults, we parents are still the place they can push when life isn't perfect and we should still be that safe place. Retaliation, no matter how, only spurs on more cruelty, and all wars end in talking and conciliation.

I didn't like the comment someone made here that they felt we were a very small, exclusive, group. Anyone out there who is sad, in pain, suffering from family problems join in - you will find it a lovely place to let the air in and everyone is nice, welcoming, and can give great comfort.

Thank you, all. I remember dollie saying a couple of weeks ago, that she had to try to let it go, because if not, it would eat away at her. This is so very true. Sometimes I can let it go a bit.....but it just comes back in waves again. I keep thinking of her as a baby and then a small child, etc, etc. I remember the times when we used to laugh so much and when she really did love me. That is the 'eating way' part.

I agree with you Nanban re retaliation. I keep trying to recall something I read recently about a Cherokee Indian boy being told by his grandfather that we all have two wolves fighting inside us. One is anger, bitterness, resentment, envy, greed, regret, self-pity; the other is joy, love, peace, empathy, truth, compassion and faith. The grandson asks 'which wolf wins?' and the grandfather replies 'whichever one you feed'. Something along those lines anyway. I think my bad wolf has been too well feed. I'm going to try to concentrate on the good one. This applies purely to myself, not to any of you lovely people who have suffered through no fault of your own.

what a lovely quote katy...i will remember that and make sure i feed the right wolf..

dollie - I haven't got the wording quite right but it's something along those lines. When I am tempted to be bitter and twisted I try to recall it !

dollie - just looked it up. This is it -

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said, “My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all.
“One is Evil – It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.
“The other is Good – It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: “Which wolf wins?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

Although my bad wolf is not evil hopefully !