Brexit is the cause of the shortages

Urmstongran

Amusing to see the far left contributors on here clamouring to agree with big business.

What? I don't understand your post

Wage rises + price rises = inflation. I seem to remember in the 1970s that this was a bete noir for the Tories. In the final analysis the poor don’t win!

The 1970s inflation was caused by whopping oil price inflation and it was a bet noir for Labour. Thatcher won on the crest of it...

Higher wages don't inevitably lead to higher prices if it increases productivity. Introducing the minimum wage was forecast to lead to inflation; I don't think that it actually did. Economics can be quite complex.

bete noir...

David Davis is now saying the shortages are entirely the fault of businesses for poor preparation! Just appalling and disgusting. No downsides at all from Brexit at all, he said again and again- only considerable upsides!

But the most bizarre thing now, is the absolute contradictions coming from the Tories. On the one hand, saying that shortages have NOTHING to do with Brexit, at all

and on the other

that shortages due to Brexit are 'good' and an upside for UK, because it will 'rebalance the economy' - as supply chains will collapse and we will all be back buying direct from the farm gates (Chris Loader Tory MP at Conference).

Just unbelievable nonsense.

bête noire, actually ;)

Whitewavemark2

Do not fall into the trap that having left all future generations have to tolerate what this generation has imposed on them.

They don’t! They will change it. This is certainly not a once and for all decision, it will be changed.

But not in our lifetimes.

MaisieD, tried to copy your post. Yes, oil price rises were the cause of inflation in the 1970s. I was suggesting that this was used to oust Labour much as the global financial crash in 2008. I don’t know much about productivity but lack of investment by industry and poor working conditions IMO, leads to poor productivity. The Quakers of Bournville fame recognised this and made huge investments in their workforce. Economics theory is very complex.

Kali2, I know I spelt bete noir incorrectly but I can’t do the circumflex on my iPad or italics. It won’t let me part copy and paste comments either so I do the best I can. I’m not a keyboard wiz.

MaizieD

^Wage rises + price rises = inflation. I seem to remember in the 1970s that this was a bete noir for the Tories. In the final analysis the poor don’t win!^

The 1970s inflation was caused by whopping oil price inflation and it was a bet noir for Labour. Thatcher won on the crest of it...

Higher wages don't inevitably lead to higher prices if it increases productivity. Introducing the minimum wage was forecast to lead to inflation; I don't think that it actually did. Economics can be quite complex.

True but Johnson economics shows no evidence that productivity will be increased to match the whopping pay rises that I heard this week that was happening in the HGV business.

Between 20-30% was mentioned. No economy can sustain that sort of pay rise without a big pressure on inflation.

Jillyjosie

I can't believe English arrogance, yet again a suggestion that a solution to the disaster of Brexit is to reunite Ireland.
The Republic of Ireland is an independent country that had to fight for its independence from a colonial Britain which invaded and used Ireland over four centuries. Ireland is doing very well for itself and as part of the EU.
Always the way for Brexiters to cast about and blame anyone but themselves for the mess this country is now in. It upsets me to see those on low incomes and those disadvantaged in other ways suffering the most but when did the Tories ever care about these people. The Cabinet is stuffed with millionaires, including a hugely rich Chancellor, who look after themselves and their ilk.
It's been long pointed out that the propaganda for Brexit built up at the point where EU regulations about tax avoidance and wealth hidden overseas were about to be enacted. You won't see that in the Daily Telegraph of course or Murdoch's rags.
I agree with you all the way MT.

I think you are being rather unjust, the only place I’ve seen this called for is, yes on here. So please don’t lump us all in the same boat.

Wages may be rising compared to 2029 when a good% of the population were on furlough ( which is what the government are sneakily comparing 2021 to) but they certainly aren’t rising for all. Higher productivity isn’t necessarily the outcome - how do you measure a nurse or a care homeworkers productivity when they do the maximum hours of shifts and are stretched to the limit? Indeed, more money maybe give them the chance to cut down their hours hence leaving more staff shortages. Truck drivers may not necessarily want or be able to do more deliveries just because they are getting paid a bit more than they have been. Employers will undoubtedly pass on increased staff costs in higher prices or even reduce their service which many are having to do anyway. So higher wages ( which not everyone will enjoy by any means) not always the benefit it might seem.

I've just been to a small co-op by my daughters house and the shelves are completely empty. I would have taken photographs but I'd left my phone in the car! It was absolutely shocking actually. It reminded me of when we used to live on the coast and it would snow badly and they would just close all the main roads so nothing could get transported anywhere and get stuck!

Kali2

David Davis is now saying the shortages are entirely the fault of businesses for poor preparation! Just appalling and disgusting. No downsides at all from Brexit at all, he said again and again- only considerable upsides!

But the most bizarre thing now, is the absolute contradictions coming from the Tories. On the one hand, saying that shortages have NOTHING to do with Brexit, at all

and on the other

that shortages due to Brexit are 'good' and an upside for UK, because it will 'rebalance the economy' - as supply chains will collapse and we will all be back buying direct from the farm gates (Chris Loader Tory MP at Conference).

Just unbelievable nonsense.

No shortage of fuel. The drivers shortages, problems go back many many years, perhaps going back and listening to what they say might give you another side to the story, why some EU drivers left, and why people don’t want the job. Why the firms employing give rubbish conditions and pay. Still guess you don’t want to listen to the other side, it’s all Brexit.

I think many people who voted for Brexit unfortunately believed what they were told by self-seeking politicians, for example, that the EU people living in the UK were contributing to low wages and so on. Its very unfortunate that people can believe this without making informed, balanced decisions for themselves.

I, personally, will continue to be angry that we have been extracted from a stable political and economic union, based mainly on lies and promises that can’t be kept. However I do understand that being angry does not mean that I am endangering my mental health, I understand that it is a valid response to the kakistocracy.

I also think it is very unfortunate that we live in a society that values people such as David Frost, who has shown himself to be capable of supporting any political philosophy that benefits him personally, and blaming any negative outcomes on people who had no influence on his decisions.

I hope this lives up to my usual standards of debate.

? I get knocked down, but I get up again
You are never gonna keep me down ?

it’s all Brexit.

No, no Linclass, I think you may have misunderstood many of the posts here. Most of us understand that the reasons for shortage of drivers is tied up with the structure of the haulage industry in the UK and elsewhere, but that Brexit has made it uniquely difficult to manage in the UK

I will answer Maddyone. As I understand it (mostly French TV and newspapers plus personal observation) there is a long-term shortfall of drivers, but not as serious as in the UK. There are currently no issues with the food supply chain or petrol deliveries. I think that some deliveries are taking a few days longer than usual (our scaffolding took a few more days than expected), but no empty shelves in supermarkets and no queues at petrol stations.
Obviously the logistics of cross-border travel in Schengen are much easier than with a third country like the UK.

Mamie there is no petrol shortage here but a few BP garages had to close because they couldn't get it delivered....this was taken up by the press, seized on by social media and there you have it, panic buying of petrol on a huge scale nationwide leading to shortages in very many garages including non BP
Ones, which never had a problem in the first place!
Entirely caused by people acting like sheep.

We don’t have empty shelves in my local Co-op Jane although vanilla yoghurt seems in short supply.

DH filled up with diesel up the road yesterday, I have been into Sainsbury’s Local in our road at lunchtime no empty shelves.

JaneJudge

I've just been to a small co-op by my daughters house and the shelves are completely empty. I would have taken photographs but I'd left my phone in the car! It was absolutely shocking actually. It reminded me of when we used to live on the coast and it would snow badly and they would just close all the main roads so nothing could get transported anywhere and get stuck!

Went to Lidl on Saturday. The shelves were fairly sparse, especially of ultra-processed food. Fruit and veg were ok. Aldi, close by had enough of everything. I presume that smaller shops with less profitability may be the first to suffer. I don’t think this will be resolved anytime soon.

Yes lemongrove my DD and family have had great difficulty getting fuel, though SiL eventually got £50 worth by going out at 5am. Is it just population density do you think or does it depend on how near places are to a depot. I would not have had the citizens of Royal Tunbridge Wells down as panic buyers. ?

Algerias You appear to think that only Remainers could make balanced and informed decisions for themselves ( a very strange assumption.)
I think we all made balanced and informed decisions on leaving the EU bloc and gave it plenty of thought.
It was always going to take time to unravel ourselves from being bound to the EU and I expected difficulties, which will be overcome.We will do very well, but expecting things to go smoothly and perfectly in the first couple of years, especially during a Pandemic, is unreasonable.
Nursing anger about a democratic political decision is madness. Please don’t give all the ‘it wasn’t democratic’ and ‘we was robbed!’ Excuses.
Nobody would think they were robbed if voters had gone for the Remain option.

Even the fine citizens of Royal Tunbridge Wells

Journalist Nick Dixon revealed he passed five petrol stations in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, which were all completely dry.

He told GMB one of them had 8,000 litres of fuel at 4pm which would normally last a couple of days.

But panic buying motorists drained those supplies in just eight hours, and bosses don't know when they'll get anymore in.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/16264227/petrol-chaos-brits-queue-night-fuel-panic/

A reporter on SKY news in London said “20% of petrol stations have no fuel”.

Why not turn that around?

“The good news is that here in London 80% of petrol stations do have fuel”.

Subtext: calm down people.

Mamie ?Tonbridge Wells or Tower Hamlets....it didn’t matter, people panicked and queued for petrol even if they had three quarters of a tank full.One garage owner reported
Five times as many customers in a day when it started.