Brexit is the cause of the shortages

Alegrias1

This is going well, isn't it?

Any benefits? Any at all?

Guess not.

I guess you’re not in the Red Wall area Alegrias. Wages going up will be a great level-upper. A Brexit positive surely and an important one at that.

Wages going up and flying pigs come to mind, sorry but the only people who ever benefit are the wealthy. That’s why the number British squillionaires have increased even during cOvid , oh yes that’s probably the corruption and cronyism we have been made all too aware of.

"Like Poozie Nancy, I’ll be “nursing my wrath to keep it warm”. Won’t need much nursing."
Oh, Alegrias1, we were getting on so well! As the 'professional Scot' on here, You should know your Burns better than that. Poosie Nansie (nb spelling) is generally identified as Agnes Gibson, who - together with her husband George - ran the Mauchline pub which featured in Burns' poem "The Jolly Beggars". Although the pub may also have been an inspiration for the opening lines of "Tam o' Shanter", it's very unlikely that Poosie Nansie (as a supplier of the same strong drink which presumably precipitated Tam's unearthly visions) would have been one of the 'sulky sullen dames' nursing their wrath over their tardy husbands' dallying 'boozin' at the nappy'. You are, therefore, at liberty to self-identify as a Sulky Sullen Dame, but please do not involve the blameless Poosie Nansie in your Brexit remorse.

Pay higher wages & they pay more tax. That’s good for the Treasury. Stupid to pay just above poverty line wages and expect the taxpayer to top them up with Universal Credit. That’s just bonkers economics.

Ooh Bodach every day is a school day on GN!
I’m very impressed.
??

Ah Bodach, I ken fine fa' Poosie Nancy was! (sp - see attached). I'll easy tak' on the description o' a sulky sullen dame as lang as we ca' Johnson the

..skellum,
A bletherin, blusterin, drunken blellum;

To be fair, I don't know if he drinks, but the rest fits.

I guess you’re not in the Red Wall area Alegrias. Wages going up will be a great level-upper. A Brexit positive surely and an important one at that.

To be fair to Urmstongran at least you have tried to give a benefit, which is what the thread asked for.

Now, perhaps you can explain how these wages will magically be increased? For reference, we discussed on another thread yesterday how the overseas workers were being used a scapegoats for paying low wages, and so getting rid of them isn't the answer to the problem.

Urmstongran

I’m always unfailingly polite Alegrias so why the ‘A bunch of gullible eejits’ jibe? It’s not necessary. It only inflames a situation.

Whos' inflamed?

Kandinsky

Whitewavemark2

Genuinely interested.
What are you doing to get the UK back in the EU ASAP? ( assuming they’d have us, which I doubt tbh )
Have remainers set up a political party like UKIP in reverse?

Nobody is suggesting that the UK will get back to the EU ASAP.
It will happen but right now they don't us.

Bodach and Alegrias ... I thought it was a reference about Nancy Pelosi!!
No wonder I didn’t understand it.
??

Sorry only managed to come back to the thread as been at work. Thank you for the (mostly) intelligent and well thought out posts about how detrimental Brexit has been. Sadly I didn’t really expect anyone to come up with any benefits. Anyone??

My anger at Brexit doesn’t consume me or interfere with my day to day functioning and I’m most certainly not embittered. But thank you for your concern about my mental health Kandinsky. I just hope that somehow this country can get back on its feet and regain its dignity in the coming years.

maddyone

I’m fed up of all this endless discussion. I voted remain, but I’ve accepted the status quo. I’ve got more than enough to worry about with the three 94 year olds in our family without worrying about that which I cannot change. There are problems post Brexit I know, but I’m unable to change anything about them. There are also problems with insufficient heavy goods drivers in other countries, but no one answered my point on that.

As someone else wrote this subject has been dealt with so many times but - probably one of the reasons why there is a shortage in the UK - an aging group of drivers.

The difference is that we in Europe aren't suffering shortages. I can still buy Marmite and peanut butter, if I want to and the étrangers shelves are full where I live:

Inflation is rising, and if it continues as many sources predict, will soon cancel out wage increases.
True levelling-up is never likely to happen under our economic modal, because it is always in the interests of businesses and share-holders to pay employees as little as they can get away with.

Brexit makes me 'angry' but its just an expression, I don't go around being 'angry' no more than someone who is 'happy' with it does. An extreme reaction by a 'happy' brexiteer to deflect the non existence of the benefits

Sadly I didn’t really expect anyone to come up with any benefits. Anyone??

Me, MaggieTulliver?

True levelling-up is never likely to happen under our economic modal, because it is always in the interests of businesses and share-holders to pay employees as little as they can get away with.

That's not a proposition I would totally agree with. I think that small and medium size businesses, which are vitally important to the day to day economy because they tend to contribute to circulation of money, are probably far more caring about the pay and conditions of their staff because their owners actually live in the communities they serve. They're not always PLCs either, so have no shareholders to satisfy.

It's the big ones that can be the problem.

Urmstongran

^Sadly I didn’t really expect anyone to come up with any benefits. Anyone??^

Me, MaggieTulliver?

Well I could say we'll all get a personal unicorn but it would be made up.

Just like the idea that Brexit will make wages go up in Red Wall constituencies.

Urmstongran

Alegrias1

This is going well, isn't it?

Any benefits? Any at all?

Guess not.

I guess you’re not in the Red Wall area Alegrias. Wages going up will be a great level-upper. A Brexit positive surely and an important one at that.

Umstongran Go on then convince me how rising wages is related to Brexit?

Is it that Brits were demanding higher wages, and those pesky Europeans (like ourselves) were, or are the cause of low wages?

Why don't UK companies collaborate with their workforces to set wage and salary levels, or do we just let the shareholders, and overseas hedge funds determine profit margins, and widen the wage gaps between the shop floor and the boardrooms.

And for labour too for the jobs the UK people don't want to do, or can't do, furlough or not. Would you want your unemployed grand-daughter to go and work in an abattoir? It is not for the faint hearted, for sure, and highly skilled and dangerous.
Nothing to do with Brexit, but this is one thing I can't get my head round. I have several British acquaintances, two of them female, in Brittany who work in the poultry processing industry gutting chickens day after day for around €9 an hour. It is stinky and very tiring. Would they work for that back here? No way, so there must be an underlying reason why not.

Umstongran Go on then convince me how rising wages is related to Brexit?

Railman, you just have to believe. An ability to do magical thinking is an asset, too...

MaizieD

^Umstongran Go on then convince me how rising wages is related to Brexit?^

Railman, you just have to believe. An ability to do magical thinking is an asset, too...

Oh dear - that's me out then

Urmstongran

Alegrias1

This is going well, isn't it?

Any benefits? Any at all?

Guess not.

I guess you’re not in the Red Wall area Alegrias. Wages going up will be a great level-upper. A Brexit positive surely and an important one at that.

Wage rises + price rises = inflation. I seem to remember in the 1970s that this was a bete noir for the Tories. In the final analysis the poor don’t win!

MaizieD

^True levelling-up is never likely to happen under our economic modal, because it is always in the interests of businesses and share-holders to pay employees as little as they can get away with.^

That's not a proposition I would totally agree with. I think that small and medium size businesses, which are vitally important to the day to day economy because they tend to contribute to circulation of money, are probably far more caring about the pay and conditions of their staff because their owners actually live in the communities they serve. They're not always PLCs either, so have no shareholders to satisfy.

It's the big ones that can be the problem.

Fair enough.

I admit that my comment was based on in-depth knowledge of just one, small, family-run business (fewer than 50 employees), and dates from at least 15 years ago, so is perhaps no longer typical of small businesses, even assuming it ever was.

It belonged to a now-retired in-law.
But even now, you should here him rant every time he reads or hears of increases in the minimum wage, and when the minimum wage was first introduced, he was outraged to think that he might be expected to pay his part-time gardener the specified hourly rate.

growstuff

Anybody going to have at persuading MaggieTulliver that Brexit was a positive move or is this thread going to degenerate into deflection, gas lighting and name calling?

No, of course not because there are no positives, none at all and that is why we are getting the nastiness, the supercilious comments, why we are told to 'get over it'. I will never, ever forgive those people who voted to make my life worse, why would I? Like quite a few on here, I have to temper my language, my true and honest opinions of those people who were short sighted and gullible enough to vote to leave the EU, although going by the snarky comments about the 'foreign press' I will say that xenophobia is featuring large as a reason for their vote.

The Foreign Press, News and satirical magazines are just full of the shortages in the UK, and how Brexit is turning out to be a disaster. And not just the EU Press. Just sharing this one, as it is from NY Times and in English

www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/britain-fuel-crisis-johnson.html