Unmanagable behaviour in 3 yrs old grandson

Like others, I have also noticed that both my grand children's behaviour becomes much more disruptive when they are hungry - and I agree that too much processed food, fizzy drink and sweets certainly don't help.

I also agree with radicalgran about the pressures put on our children from an early age.

I don't think it it is very nice to suggest that parents who face behavioural difficulties with their children are "lazy" or "inept". I expect we have all made mistakes.

I've not experienced it myself but my young neighbour has same problem with her 3 yr old boy. The screaming sessions are awful all because she tells him no, or sit down and eat your dinner or put your shoes on. The sessions exculate into him hitting or biting her or throwing things across the room. The other day whilst she was unlocking the door he started kicking it really hard that it left foot prints. His father tells him off but nothing seems to bother him. He's at full time nursery they did have issues with him biting but he's much better behaved there now, but not at home. Parents try there best with his behaviour but nothing seems to change.

My GS was awful at that age giving my DD and I lots of worry about whether his behaviour was within the normal spectrum or not. However, when he went to nursery school he settled there but was a little monster (said affectionately) at home for his Mum. He was manageable for me but I felt that was because he was more sure of her than me. Now he is into his second year at school and they don't appear to have any worries about him. He is better at home but he gets his older sister into trouble all the time. I take a no nonsense, firm but loving approach and, so far, touch wood, it is working.
I suspect your GS is just doing what 3 years old do and if the older child was manageable, it is a shock to the system.

My dgd has had behaviour issues, sometimes to the point of tears (mine!!!). The thing I find most useful is positive reinforcement. Make a HUGE deal of behaviour you want to see, more praise than feels comfortable to give! Behaviour chart (smilie face or stars, whatever works) is a great incentive. Pick just one challenging behaviour at a time to work on & when that's mastered move on to next thing. I also found 10 mins one to one child led play helpful. You're letting the child know you're fully listening & give undivided attention. This help reaffirm the attachment. Good luck ?

I agree with those who say Check the food: sugar, preservatives all affect us, and especially children. My granddaughters both have the attention span of gnats and I (silently) blame the television, which they have on all the time (grrrrr).

ChristineFrance mentioned the GP - perhaps not in terms of his behaviour but checking for any physical causes: children with hearing or sight loss can experience a great deal of frustration trying to make sense of the world around them. Rather a long shot, but worth considering - although I agree with all the other posts re: food additives and inconsistent parenting are more likely to be the cause.

Well thank you all for your words of wisdom. I am new to Gransnet and am amazed at the response to my cry for help.
I should explain a little more about the behaviour of my GS who is a delightful little boy at times. He is very bright and was counting to 20 when he was just two. He is very strong willed to the point of calling everyones's bluff what ever happens. He goes to nursery and enjoys his time there, however his key worker sees him as very determined to get his own way and has to stay with him at time out. He is a very bad sleeper and can be up 2 or 3 times a night and is up at 5.30 every morning. Consequently his mother is exhausted most of the time - she is not an inept parent foxie and I would describe my GS's behaviour as very unmanageable at the times of his meltdown. Yesterday, he behaved badly at the dinner table, picking up food with his fingers, jumping up and down on the chairs, throwing himself at his mother and more. We tried everything we could to make him sit even for a few minutes to eat his food but he refused so after 3 warnings we put his food in the garden room next to the kitchen, this is when he started to scream arch his back run around the garden just being a pain. This went on for about half an hour so we left him to work it out of himself which didn't work. Eventually his mother put him in the car and drove him round for 20 minutes hoping he would fall asleep, he didn't but came back more subdued after screaming for the whole 20 mins.
this may be a stage he's going through and we may not be perfect parents or grandparents but we are all feeling pretty helpless to know what to do. I have had three children and have never experienced this and my daughter is so exhausted I worry she is heading for a breakdown.

Florence Can I suggest you get his mum to take him to the gp (go with her if she wants) and ask about an assessment for autism? The poor lad's behaviour is similar to that of my grandson, who was diagnosed at 3.5 years with being on the autism spectrum. His sleep pattern is also similar.

Of course it may not be the cause but a referral to a pediatrician would help. Good luck and try to keep calm at all times - easier said than done I know

Florence123 thanks for the details, it sounds very wearing for all of you. Can I suggest a few things? (And apologies if you have already tried them). You say 'we' when you were dealing with his behaviour at table, could one person take responsibility for the discipline and the rest of you try to get on with your meal ignoring him completely? Not easy I know but at the moment your DGS is probably getting a feeling of power because he is the centre of attention. One small person being able to disrupt everyone's meal isn't good. Have you tried a rewards system instead of punishment? DGD -very strong willed responded well to stars which were collected and earned a special treat when she had so many. The sleep thing I can't help with- tried all sorts with mine, but a rota giving mum the occasional sleep in might help her.
I do think sometimes asking for good behaviour for short periods and giving a reward does help. Sometimes children get themselves in a cycle of rebellion and bad behaviour from which they are unable to escape. Just giving a small target and a small reward can help them through it. Good luck I really hope you find a solution.

Have a grandson who had this problem. I think it's about attention seeking behaviour and the more extreme the behaviour the greater the attention. Maybe problem lies with Mum and Dad who give in just for the sake of peace and quiet. Happily, grandson is much better, he is 16 now, but this type of behaviour continued until as recently as two yeas ago.

I agree with swanny - - I experienced the same with my grandson from 2 years onwards - full on bouncing off the walls and no concentration on anything for more than a nano second. He also had no empathyfor others and would go off at tangents both physically and mentally. He was finally, after a few long and exhausting years, assessed and found to be on the extreme of the autism scale - has now had help as have the family in how to cope with him and he is happily in mainstream school and progressing well. His sister had none of these problems so ' bad parenting' is NOT the cause.

GD used to have epic tantrums when she was tiny, I believed it was because she got frustrated when she could not make herself understood. Naughtiness now seems to start when she gets hungry and seems to relate to low blood sugar. Her sibling does not have the same problem as she is a good eater and always asks for food when hungry. Have noticed that both go hyper when they have been to parties and had brightly coloured cake and sweets.
DS had some issues after eating certain foods so in the 70s I cut out sweets and drinks with added colouring, it was time consuming but I believe it worked.
I am all for ignoring attention seeking at the dinner table, a child not talked at usually gets on and eats something, if you reward bad behaviour by giving attention you will perpetuate it.

Children these days have a very busy life being dragged from one activity to another, there days are full of shopping and car journeys, they never get a chance to be still, also they never get a chance to run and use up their energy. how long does the poor soul spend in the car each day?

If the area your daughter lives in still has Children's Centres, they may be able to help. They usually run courses that look at different strategies for behaviour management in children under 5 which may be useful. As a start it may be helpful to ask what strategies the preschool/nursery are using and see if a bit of consistency with them helps.

My relationship with my son is ruined because of his sons horrendous behaviour. My house my rules. Although I never shouted at my grandson. I would tell him not to do things and why. It ended in my son accusing me of bullying him. He is totally out of control. No discipline from his parents until he puts a cushion over his younger brothers face as he could suffocate him. But still he carries on. Last time they came he was doing something that was ruining something I had just bought. I thought how should I deal with it. So I asked his mother to tell him to stop. She said if it breaks it breaks. I can't afford to replace things. I said could I tell him. She said yes. They never invite us to them unless they want my oh to help with DIY. Now I actually I pleased to not see them so much. I am the evil one in their eyes but my OH doesn't want them here and used to hide when they visit. So Florence I think I should have suggested going out together on neutral ground and not said anything.

I'd be surprised if the child had a problem like autism - it sounds like a behaviour management problem. The behaviour you describe at the table is testing the adult responses - which was to give him lots of attention, try to persuade him to eat etc. Huge reward for the bad behaviour. So why wouldn't he keep acting up?
Taking his food away and ignoring him completely would be the kind of adult behaviour that would discourage this behaviour.
However parents need help to change the way they are behaving and I like MagicWand's suggestion.

Yes, like swanny my oldest GS used to have horrendous meltdowns like this and he has been diagnosed as ASD. Why would you be surprised that it could be ASD Jess

It can be hard for these children to understand their world, especially at only 3 years of age and once into meltdown they frighten themselves and the situation escalates.

At the very least get him seen by a GP to either rule it out or get him an early diagnosis.

He sounds very bright. Perhaps he needs to be tested for that, then his parents need to be advised on best strategies going forward.
He could actually be super bored.

Please try the food route before you involve the 'professionals'. My son was hyperactive and drove us to the end of our tether when he was little - we didn't know about hyperactivity in those days. In desperation we joined the hyperactive child society, took him off all foods/medicines/drinks containing E numbers and he was a TOTALLY DIFFERENT child. It was like Jekyll and Hyde. He stopped destroying things and was loving and kind. I felt terribly guilty then about how I had shouted at him and treated him previously. He was still a bit of handful! but then do we want our children to grow up and totally conform? I have recently written a poem about some of the terrible things he used to do. He laughed!

You mention that he has an older brother who gets into trouble because of the behaviour of the little one. This is very familiar to me. My youngest GS who, as I mentioned up-thread as having been monstrous, still gets his older brother into trouble because junior irritates him to the point that he retaliates and is then seen as a trouble-maker when he probably wanted to get on with his own pursuits peacefully. In our case, the older one is very good indeed at building Lego models and young brother will do almost anything to break his concentration - and his models. Have you thought of extreme sibling rivalry as being at the bottom of the younger child's behaviour?

And orange juice, when my GD was little she was nearly climbing the walls. Please whatever the problem is don't lose your temper and smack him.its not the answer you just have to be firm.Could find out what the problem is by talking to him when he has a wobbly and calmed down

Is his speech and language delayed (including his understanding)? Children who can't express themselves verbally will of course get furious or lash out.

There is a lot of long distance diagnosis going on on this thread which might be a bit alarming for the OP. I would suggest that this is premature and inappropriate and that this is a behaviour problem in the normal range for a 3 year old. The child is only 3 and his mother is exhausted due to disturbed sleep. He has the upper hand and is making the most of it, in the way that 2-3 year olds with lots of energy and a strong will to rule the universe will tend to do given a bit of encouragement.
Most grandparents are not in a position to intervene, either to suggest a different way of managing his behaviour, or to suggest that the child should be assessed.

I have been told by lots of relatives that I had dreadful temper tantrums as a toddler when I couldn't get my own way. It seems I was badly spoilt by my loving and beloved grandfather, a Durham miner, who was my surrogate father during the war when Dad was away.

My mother told me that I threw myself to the floor in Woolworths when I was three and screamed and kicked her. She, finally having had enough, walked off and out of the door, leaving me alone. She was actually waiting just outside the door and was watching me. I stopped screaming, terrified to have been left alone, then ran out into her arms. I am told I never had another tantrum. True story but probably doesn't help much.

Foxie I missed your post earlier today. which has given me the opportunity not to respond angrily. My DGS's 'unmanageable behaviour' is NOT a result of 'inept parenting' by parents who are 'too lazy or misguided ...' If only it were that simple

As for 'Grandparent can and often do provide an important role and they to have the knowledge and wisdom when to say NO and when to give that big loving hug', with respect that is balderdash. A hug makes DGS worse as he is extremely sensitive to touch. I yearn for his huggles (his beautiful word) at times and appreciate them all the more when he instigates one.