Vegans?

So it's okay to mention that we've been eating meat for millions of years and accept that as natural, but not okay for me to remind you that natural is eating it raw?
There is no evidence of fire before 400,000 years. That's a lot of raw meat. You don't see the relevance? Shows you only see what you want to see.

durhamjen you sound like the typical angry vegetarian casting around to show why only yourchoice of food is the good one.Do you lecture everbody around you on the subject.....because the vegetarians that I know do not. I enjoy eating meat, and enjoy having leather shoes and handbags.It's a lifestyle choice, not one to beat other people over the head with.

Lifestyle.

I enjoy many vegtarian meals but would hate to live on it entirely.

I do actually have some real, want to know question about a vegan diet. Not ones that have been covered in any book I've read. They might irritate you a bit durhamjen, but they are not wind ups, truly. Would you be prepared to engage?

Roses, the thread is about vegans, not about how much you enjoy using animal produce.

Go on then, Jayanna.

Well I'll just do one at a time. Maybe two. Practical first. Is it possible to have a balanced vegan diet if you have a nut allergy? All the recipe books I've had a look at seem to rely heavily on nuts. And I have Linda McCartney sausages in the oven at the mo. Are they ok?

If they have the vegetarian society tick on them, Linda McCartney sausages are vegan.
It is possible to have a balanced vegan diet with a nut allergy. Use lots of pulses instead. Are seeds okay?
Just like when you become vegetarian it's possible to just substitute eggs and cheese for meat, you tend to use nuts instead of dairy when you become vegan.
If you go on www.veganrecipeclub.org.uk you will find a list of nutfree recipes. Use the tabs on the left hand side.
I always find it strange when people ask about a balanced vegan diet, as if everybody eats a balanced diet. Most people just eat and don't think about it.
I've cut back on veg, as I found I was eating between ten and twelve portions a day. I now eat eight to ten. It's cheaper, particularly as most of my food is organic.

That link didn't appear to work, said it was too long.
Try
www.viva.org.uk

It's on there.

Thanks. Used term balanced because I know - think I know?- that food combining is important to access maximum nutrients.
Now what about all these supplements? Are they necessary or are they a rip off by health food companies?
As I said at the start of the thread, vegetarian using dairy products doesn't make sense to me. Either meat or vegan except....
Next door have three very content hens clucking around. No cockerel. Eggs from happy hens?

Durhamjen, you sound very defensive and aggressive. Everybody should eat what they want to without criticism. My attitude is live and let live. I have no problems cooking for a mixed group and simply make a very large veggie dish (today it was roast sweet potato topped with mixed beans in a delicious tomato, onion and sweet pepper sauce topped with grated cheddar and had there been any vegans I would simply have missed out the cheese and topped it with nuts) plus a meat dish served separately to be eaten with the veggies. It is not rocket science.
What I very much object to is being berated for my choices by the holier than thou born again food police.

I don't think the OP is aggressive but it does seem to be asking vegetarians and vegans to explain their 'lifestyle choice' (not a term I care for either phoenix) and might therefore put us on the defensive. Particularly when most of us have been asked the same sort of questions over the years and very often ridiculed for those choices, in my experience. And yes it does still happen and comes in many guises. I have been told outright that I am stupid for not eating meat . But the most common response is the 'jokes' people seem compelled to make along the lines of 'I love animals as well, especially when they're roasted and served with gravy'. Well excuse me if I don't split my sides but I've heard similar comments a million times and they're boring.

With respect to one point in the OP, I don't think you would find many people who would say they became vegan because they love animals. Most vegetarians and vegans I know would not use this phrase. It's one of my pet dislikes because it is meaningless. Perhaps we should respect them more and love them less.

I don't have any supplements, Jayanna, apart from CoQ10, which I am reliably informed everyone of a certain age needs as our ability to absorb it. Vegans can only get it from nuts and soya oil.
I started taking it when I was on statins after a problem with my aorta and haven't stopped, although I stopped taking the statins.
In the 70s when we became vegetarian, food combining was the thing to do. Since then it has been realised that if you eat a variety of protein foods over the week, there is no need to worry.
The easiest thing to think about is having a variety of colours every day. Different colours usually mean different vitamins and minerals. Until the next idea comes along, of course.

I know people who have happy hens. They complain like mad if the hens are taken by foxes, but I tell them that foxes are only doing what they are supposed to do. We can rationalise our food needs, and grow a bigger variety.

Sorry I took so long to answer. I've been making and eating my vegan dinner!

Sorry, first sentence - our ability to absorb it reduces with age.

To answer the OP, the only sensible conclusion to be reached is to allow the choice that we all have to eat meat, not eat meat, be vegan etc. And for firms to try and use vegetable oils where possible in consumer goods.Surely it must always be possible, or nearly always.The world runs best where many choices are allowed and catered for without putting any one food choice above another.

Being omnivorous seems to have done very well for us as a species.

Well said about preserving choice, roses. There's a lot of talk of diversity these days. Well, here's a chance for everyone to embrace diversity of food choices among human beings. Being omnivorous (notwithstanding exceptions because of intolerances, etc) is a good thing for species survival and adaptability.

Humane killing, what's that about, what can be humane about being slaughtered. Animals are absolutely terrified when they make the journey through the gates of the abbotoirs. I saw a video that showed them trying desperately to turn around. Apparently they know when they are in the holding yards. I really don't understand when people say they love animals then they eat them. You can not love something and eat it, you just can't.

It would help a great deal if
-we wasted less food,
-ate less generally, but especially red meat
-demanded good, more natural husbandry and not mega-farming

It will not appease vegetarians or vegans but it would be healthier and better environmentally for everyone.

We are all very lucky to

How lucky we all are,
that we are able to make such a lifestyle choice
Some unfortunate people have to live with a hand to mouth existence.
Not knowing when/where or what their next meal will be!

Please Ignore first line ( have brain fog today)

Cherry thought it was going to be a little poem.

They would have more food to eat if we didn't use their land to grow grain to feed the animals the Western world eats.

I agree cherry tree and thank my blessings.

"They" may not think beyond making money by growing the grain to feed the animals etc durhamjen. I'm not a million miles from your views on this but forgive me if I say, your hectoring, disapproving tone is somewhat alienating.

How does stating my view become hectoring and disapproving?

That is one of the reasons I became vegetarian over forty years ago, and am now vegan.

Those who are hungry are not normally the ones who sell the food. It's normally their governments, who do not share the profits.

I support Actionaid, and they give animals and teach fishing where necessary. I'm not all bad, you know.

www.actionaid.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/food-hunger-and-sustainable-livelihoods

Not that you care, anything to attack me on.