Niqab/burqa ban in Netherlands

Correction.. To clarify im talking about a burka i think (the dress that covers everything with just mesh over the eyes)

If everyone got on with their own lives and ignored this " awareness " society where everyone's colour, dress, religion, gender and all the other insipid pointers thrown out by the media is under scrutiny on a daily basis, everyone would get on far better.
Learn to accept ! That's all there is to it. People shouldn't be judged at every given opportunity it's not right.

wish there was a "like" symbol for that comment EllanVannin

Saudi Prince says women should be able to choose what they wear as long as it is something decent and respectful like mens (wear):

www.dw.com/en/saudi-arabia-prince-says-women-should-decide-whether-to-wear-robes-face-veils/a-43043071

I totally agree and wish that the mini skirted, knickerless girls who go out to get drunk at weekends, and the race going ladies who pour themselves into tight, revealing dresses would follow suit. They seem to have no self respect and it is this sort of behaviour that hardens the attitude of some traditional Moslems, to keep a tight rein on the women in their family for whom they are responsible.

Gonegirl, what did you enjoy about seeing women ,often trafficked women being used and abused?

I am profoundly deaf and even those who have slight hearing problems rely on reading lips. When I said I could never have a conversation with someone, anyone come to that matter who had their mouths covered it was assumed immediately that I was being prejudiced or racist. Any expression of dislike has to be very cautious as we are labelled immediately without thinking about the impact those have on others too.

I am with Day6 on this one.

Being around women dressed that way feels very odd.
It is odd. Being told we have to accept it is also odd.

I used to see many women like this when i lived in London. There is no way to be friendly with someone dressed like this. I have tried and it seemed as if there was an impenetrable barrier.

They weren't trafficked! I was with my daughter and we had a light-hearted evening out. Not getting heavy with this.

(to lessismore)

The Dutch are a very tolerant race. The French, I believe, banned all forms of religious clothing.

If you go to the 'red light district' that is just what it is, not everywhere, just that district. I have been to Amsterdam many times and never seen it.

I don't know why some women wear the burka but if it is a fashion statement why is there no equivalent for men? I believe the nearest the Koran goes is to tell Muslims to be modest. I am always amused when I see a girl wearing the headscarf with skinny jeans and a tight top!

I am happy for everyone to practice their own religion as long as they do not affect others. I used to have to visit an embassy of a Muslim country and, out of respect, always covered my arms, legs and head. I don't like the way some Muslims have tried to change what is taught in school, that is not their decision. Sorry I've strayed off the OP!

I don't have a problem when I see someone walking down the road in a burka but think I probably would if I had to discuss something important with them and couldn't see their face.

Presumably those who wear one never go out to eat? In Dubai some restaurants have sectioned off areas where families can go so that the woman can remove hers.

And they're certainly not "abused". It's all government controlled these days.

Oh, it's not all in the red light district Nonnie.

Suit yourself Gonegirl. I think it stinks.

Well said, Day6. This word 'racist' has become a blanket term, a way to dismiss any concerns about the current visitors to our country. They are imposing their customs on us and we are quite within our rights to complain about it. When Westerners visit countries such as Saudi Arabia, we usually pay respect to their custom of covering up. I'm not saying that Muslim women should 'bare all' as so many of our women do, but they should try to compromise but uncovering their faces.

They are imposing their customs on us

I am wearing trousers and a stripy top today. Obviously I will be wearing my burqa which has been imposed on me.

Rubbish.

Thanks felice for the info regarding banning headwear/ clothing in France, I thought I had read somewhere that was the case.Interesting to hear that the fuss has settled down and it has become accepted.Perhaps France has the right idea on this custom and as a result women both now and in the future will feel liberated by it.

Lessismore, I might have known that someone would take that expression in a narrow-minded fashion. They are forcing their customs on us simply by walking down OUR streets dressed in that way, just as we force our customs on them by revealing so much of ourselves. I'm sure many of them feel offended by the sight of so much pale flesh, just as we are offended by their lack of it.

Ah but Gonegirl you can choose not to go into the red light district where, I understand, everything is very much on display. If it is in other parts of NL, I still haven't seen it but maybe I'm not looking for it!

Lemongrove, I actually live in Belgium not France. When I visited the UK for a month a few years ago, I bought a bus pass. I had to have a photograph taken, and show the pass photo side up on the bus, how does that work if fully veiled?

* Nonnie* we weren't looking for it! But there she was in the window. In the morning too. No where near the red light district.

Interesting point felice- hadn’t thought about that. How do the manage that one? Perhaps the don’t use public transport?

Many different opinions here-I live in England btw. I do find it uncomfortable when I see women covered up-in the same way if ever I saw women inadequately dressed too! As others have said, in this country women have western dress and, if we went to a Moslem country we would dress accordingly so they should do the same here. You cannot interact with someone you cannot see IMHO.
Talking of rights-the burka woman shouting at homosexuals in a a parade-can those of us who don’t really like either have any rights too? I think not-we have been silenced; to speak freely, not unkindly!-is now illegal!

They are forcing their customs on us simply by walking down OUR streets

Who is this OUR and They?

British women wear the Burqa.

The Burka, a well worn subject, but one I guess we will return to frequently. Whilst we debate about the appropriateness of such a garment it seems that our European counterparts are in increasing numbers banning the burka altogether. What does that say about them then? I've always thought France in particular has taken rather a sledgehammer approach to the matter. I've quite a few cousins in that country, and I remember a couple of years ago, there was a debacle about a Muslim lady on a beach being confronted by some jobsworth or other because she was wearing shock horror, a kafan, leggings and headscarf. What the hell was wrong with that!" better than being confronted by a wrinkly old arse less than pert derriere" said I to a cousin in an email, but he was the whole "when in France" attitude, which I simply don't agree with.

Nevertheless, they are a barrier and one can never be sure if it's "I'm wearing it because I want to or because I'm forced to" There are a whole raft of Muslim women such as Yasmin Alibhai Brown who hate them, possibly because they are aware more than we are of the subliminal message they put out there. Lets not forget that the Afghan type, one poster referred to affords the wearer no peripheral vision, so they really need a physical guide, thus rendering them fully dependent. So those who criticise western women for their disapproval of the garment, what would you say to Muslim women who see them as some sort of shackle. A shackle any of us would have placed on us if we chose to be an expatriate in say Saudi. I believe the abaya is still mandatory there if a western woman wants to leave the compound where they live.

My neighbour is Persian and from time to time returns to Iran and is forced to wear the headscarf, hates it, but knows full well it's just something that has to done, Iran is full of young women who wear that scarf as far down the back of the head as possible and I doubt whether they would fully understand the choice some women make here to wear a burka of their own volition, but I guess it's human nature to want what is forbidden and that works both ways sometimes.

There's part of me that sympathises with the patriarchy that exists in pretty much all religions. We were a catholic family and when I was growing up females had to cover their heads in church, I never really grasped why, my mother, as indeed her contemporaries, wore these mantilla lace things in church, I guess it could have been called "forced cover up lite". It never extended to out of doors though and it's all gone out the window now anyway.

I also remember being at my convent school when one of the girls who hailed from southern Italy had a member of her extended family die and she was expected to wear black for possibly 12 months. The nuns were seething, presented with such a cultural dilemma that they really couldn't do anything about. Their palpable anger came to the fore almost weekly when they asked said pupil when she was going to get back into full school uniform, naice boater, white gloves and all, and out of the black. "Not yet" came the reply, it was indeed amusing to watch it play out but it did illustrate to me how subscribers to the same faith could nevertheless have cultural differences and some of those differences deep rooted and pertaining to another country. They, the nuns, did point out to her "this is not how we do things here" well you could get away with that then, but happily water on a duck's back, she continued happily in her black dress, sadly not the actual "little black dress" that we all love, and we continued to be entertained by their ongoing exasperation.

It does occur to me that we must be well down the road to "la la land" when such an inane justifications for facial coverings well beekeepers and welders wear them too! In the words of John McEnroe "you cannot be serious" I've never seen a bee keeper/welder with full face cover out on my high street, I won't say never cos who knows some dickhead avant garde fashion designer might put them out on the catwalk anytime soon and as a consequence they could become de rigueur . Anyway will know if VB is photographed tripping along in one, with her eyes glued to ground but looking a treat in her beekeeper's hat on can't wait!

4th para meant to say sympathises with the victims of patriarchy.

Interesting post TerriBull. It’s important to discuss