Neopronouns

Of course they aren't compelling you. You on the other hand seem to be telling them they can't be who they want to be.

Remind me - who is twisting words?

I did and I did and I didn’t expect an answer, so that was a surprise.

Galaxy

I am not compelling them to do anything, you are trying to compel me to use certain words. The history of people saying 'theres no harm' is very relevant, as in pretty much every previous discussion, the words 'no harm' were used, and those words were incorrect.

But you say they have to describe themselves as him or her, how is that not telling them what to do?
If I say I want to cross the road here and you insist I must cross at the lights or on the crossing 50 yards away. you are telling me what to do. You may do it because you believe it is safer but you are still telling me what to do.
You may believe non-binary people are dangerous in some way and so refuse to recognise them, but by limiting their options and refusing their requests, you are telling them what to do.

Who refers to themselves as 'him' or 'her'?

I use 'I', 'me' and occasionally 'myself'.

I don't think anyone has said that NB people are dangerous, have they?? And how are their options limited? This is starting to sound like the 'most marginalised' trope.

Doodledog

Who refers to themselves as 'him' or 'her'?

I use 'I', 'me' and occasionally 'myself'.

I don't think anyone has said that NB people are dangerous, have they?? And how are their options limited? This is starting to sound like the 'most marginalised' trope.

I’ve read through the posts, and the only person who mentions being non-binary means dangerous is Glorianny herself.
Implying she knows what anyone believes sounds a bit like thought police.
I’ll be waiting for her explanation of how their options are limited.
Re ‘most marginalised’
I’m sure at least one poster is keeping that in readiness.

I, me, myself... gender neutral pronouns

If someone wrote:

I went to the shop today and tried on some new clothes that looked good on me. I asked myself if I could really afford them and decided to put them back...

We wouldn't know their gender, we don't need to know their gender and there is absolutely no need to state gender when referring to a third party in many instances

Which is why gender neutral third party pronouns came into existence... quite a while ago now

We don’t need to know the gender of someone in a zoom meeting either.

Which is my point.

I have re

I have repeatedly said I wouldnt make them do anything how could I? Anyone can describe themselves aanything they like. And no I dont think non binary people are dangerous
.

I can understand how some men want to be women and some women want to be men but non binary perplexes me.
Without wishing to cause offence to anyone, I am a woman I have no idea what it feels like to be a man or how different my feelings and thoughts would be if I were one.
What do people who say they are non binary feel about themselves and how do they know that those feelings make them non binary as opposed to wanting to feel like a woman or a man? How can you be neither one or other. Does anyone have any insight?

Actually I think for women its utterly understandable, particularly young women who wants to escape sexism, misogyny etc. My view is that it wont make any difference to the oppression they experience but I can understand it.

So you are at a meeting as an ice-breaker the organiser suggests you introduce yourself to the person next to you, find out a few things about them then you will introduce each other to the group. The person next to you is called Bobby and is non-binary. How would you introduce them to the group?

"This is Bobby".

this is Bobby who has 3 dogs, loves to surf and reads detective novels

Bobby, Georgie, Leslie, Hilary, etc. There are a good number of names that have been used for either sex and more are being invented as we speak.

Ok so then it's opened up to questions (I knew you'd try to avoid using they) You are asked "Where does she surf?" Bobby has made it very clear to you that their non-binary status is important. Do you correct or ignore the mistake?

Love your ever reiterated scenarios which you set up to try and prove your point. I’ll decide when I’m ever in that situation.
How do non binary people dress? As male or female? If Bobby’s sporting a beard, I might explain that PCOS often causes that for unfortunate females, but Bobby simply hasn’t shaved today.
If Bobby looks like a man, I’d use ‘he’. If Bobby looked like a female I’d use she. Or I’d simply use the name again. Bobby of course would be far too polite to make anyone feel uncomfortable by insisting on a particular word. (I’ve only met polite NB people and they were quite relaxed about pronouns. You make it sound as if all NB people are aggressive, which is rather unkind to them. )
Equally, I wouldn’t insist that Bobby refer to me as Her Ladyship , that being my preferred ‘pronoun’ . . .

All they want is for you to accept that they choose to be non-binary, that they don't think you have a right to force them to declare as "him" or "her" and accept "they" as their pronoun in every day life. Nothing to do with services or circumstances where their sex may be need to be known. Just pronouns in everyday life.

If it's 'just pronouns' why do workplaces have policy that 'non-binary' people can use the changing & toilet facilities for either sex, as they feel at the moment?

If it's 'just pronouns' why is there a call for 'non-binary' people to be able to change (falsify) their birth certificates and other documents by placing X as their sex designator?

If 'just pronouns' were as you say, Glorianny, and everyone was being honest about their sex in situations where it's important, then I'd support the use of one set of pronouns for everyone.

It isn't as you say, though, and people are using wrong-sex pronouns and non-binary pronouns as part of concealing which sex they are, or insisting that their 'gender identity' be treated as their sex, even in situations where it is important.

For that reason I won't knowingly use incorrect pronouns in any situation.

I recently saw an interview with Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White.
Sarah used Robin's name, rather than a pronoun. It sounded less awkward than might be thought.

Mollygo

Love your ever reiterated scenarios which you set up to try and prove your point. I’ll decide when I’m ever in that situation.
How do non binary people dress? As male or female? If Bobby’s sporting a beard, I might explain that PCOS often causes that for unfortunate females, but Bobby simply hasn’t shaved today.
If Bobby looks like a man, I’d use ‘he’. If Bobby looked like a female I’d use she. Or I’d simply use the name again. Bobby of course would be far too polite to make anyone feel uncomfortable by insisting on a particular word. (I’ve only met polite NB people and they were quite relaxed about pronouns. You make it sound as if all NB people are aggressive, which is rather unkind to them. )
Equally, I wouldn’t insist that Bobby refer to me as Her Ladyship , that being my preferred ‘pronoun’ . . .

Just because your narrow world doesn't include anyone whose sex is difficult to judge by appearance doesn't mean there aren't any people like that Mollygo I've met quite a few. They are lovely people you just have to ask which pronoun they prefer and some choose non-binary

OK so you refuse to use Bobby's chosen pronoun, don't correct the questioner and keep quiet -for whatever reason.

Bobby then introduces you as a biased woman who won't use their chosen pronoun and who doesn't recognise non-binary identities. They ask the group to be kind to you, to try and help you through your difficulties but to explain to you whenever they can how important it is to acknowledge others.
They get a round of applause. You get a lot of dirty looks and people coming up to you all day wanting to explain non-binary to you
So was it worth it? When just saying "they" would have meant it was all over in the few minutes you were speaking?

What a bunch of bullies.

FarNorth

^All they want is for you to accept that they choose to be non-binary, that they don't think you have a right to force them to declare as "him" or "her" and accept "they" as their pronoun in every day life. Nothing to do with services or circumstances where their sex may be need to be known. Just pronouns in everyday life.^

If it's 'just pronouns' why do workplaces have policy that 'non-binary' people can use the changing & toilet facilities for either sex, as they feel at the moment?

If it's 'just pronouns' why is there a call for 'non-binary' people to be able to change (falsify) their birth certificates and other documents by placing X as their sex designator?

If 'just pronouns' were as you say, Glorianny, and everyone was being honest about their sex in situations where it's important, then I'd support the use of one set of pronouns for everyone.

It isn't as you say, though, and people are using wrong-sex pronouns and non-binary pronouns as part of concealing which sex they are, or insisting that their 'gender identity' be treated as their sex, even in situations where it is important.

For that reason I won't knowingly use incorrect pronouns in any situation.

I recently saw an interview with Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White.
Sarah used Robin's name, rather than a pronoun. It sounded less awkward than might be thought.

Are we back to toilets again? And I'm afraid non-binary people will generally use toilets designated for either sex, because if they use one you might imagine they were that sex. But providing a toilet which could be for either usually solves that.

There are countries which recognise non-binary as an identity and which have an x as the sex designator. After all does it really matter what sex you are when you go through passport control?
The instances where you need to know anyone's sex are very few.
But why is "they" incorrect? If you really aren't sure from the appearance If you have any doubts as to the gender, if the person then says they prefer "they" what is incorrect? If you used "he" and they were female it would be incorrect, so why not use they?.

Glorianny

Ok so then it's opened up to questions (I knew you'd try to avoid using they) You are asked "Where does she surf?" Bobby has made it very clear to you that their non-binary status is important. Do you correct or ignore the mistake?

"Bobby prefers the pronoun 'they' because of identifying as Non-binary. Bobby surfs off the north coast of Scotland ."

FarNorth

What a bunch of bullies.

How is it bullying? You could be seen as the bully because you refused to listen to Bobby. They are trying to help you.

FarNorth

Glorianny

Ok so then it's opened up to questions (I knew you'd try to avoid using they) You are asked "Where does she surf?" Bobby has made it very clear to you that their non-binary status is important. Do you correct or ignore the mistake?

"Bobby prefers the pronoun 'they' because of identifying as Non-binary. Bobby surfs off the north coast of Scotland ."

Irrelevant Bobby still introduces you as the woman who won't use their chosen pronoun. You still spend the day having non-binary explained to you.