Neopronouns

Luckygirl3

As someone with a late teens grandchild who is wanting to change gender, I can endorse how hard it is to remember to use "they" - in my aged mind it is a plural. But I wish to try and respect their wishes, and do my best.

I have told them that I love them dearly and will sometimes get it wrong.

I can only endorse exactly what Luckygirl says. Two of my g.children prefer the pronoun 'They' when I refer to them. They know that I sometimes forget, but that i do try to respect their wishes.

Ilove being called 'woke', which I take as meaning that I care about other people and their feelings.

Language is always changing and developing, so very many words from the past that are never used and would not be understood these days.

If young people want to be referred to as 'They', rather than he/she - then that is fine by me. Least can do - when I think about all the problems in the world that I am passing on to that generation.

I too get confused with all the wokery pronouns, and will just see it as I call it for an easy life, unless an individual specifically tells me otherwise, then I will respect their wishes. Unfortunately it may enter my life, I have a little part time job in a well known shop and they are talking about putting our preferred pronouns on our name badges, this has annoyed me. A lot are in favour of and a lot against, I am definitely against.
I also object to being labelled as cisgender, again why should wokery impact the gender that people are born who wish to remain male/female.
I am all for freedom of choice, but other peoples choices are their own, so why should their choice impact me, and force me to be labelled?

Social affirmation for young people is not advised under NHS guidelines, so I would follow those guidelines.
They can ask you to wear your pronouns they cant enforce it.

Galaxy

Social affirmation for young people is not advised under NHS guidelines, so I would follow those guidelines.
They can ask you to wear your pronouns they cant enforce it.

I don't think it is s simple as that sounds. If someone you love dearly, and who is going through a difficult confused time in their mind, asks you to call them they and says they wish to change gender is it "social affirmation" to respect their wishes; or are we just trying to respect them and not push them away or into conflict with us if we comply? They need us more than ever just now and dismissing their wishes will not help.

I think it's absolutely difficult for families luckygirl, particularly as the previous advice has not been supported by any data or follow up.

Abitbarmy I was laughing with some friends last night and Terry Wogan's "home for the bewildered" came up :-)

These days I do feel "bewildered" a lot of the time.

I'm only grateful I'm not in the workplace having to navigate all these factors. I feel sorry for anyone who is having to do their job AND manage all these factors.

I agree, Luckygirl. When it affects loved ones it changes things. I haven’t had to deal with it on a close personal level- a good friend’s daughter is the nearest it’s come for me - but I can see how anyone would want to be supportive of a family member. I am entirely respectful of my friend’s daughter, although I don’t need to actually do anything one way or another apart from use her adopted name. If one of my own family wanted me to use different pronouns and make other adaptations I can’t imagine not doing so.

It is ‘the system’ that should change, IMO. I am unaware of how transpeople are ‘marginalised’ as we are told every single time they come up in parliament or in tv interviews (to the point where it has the non-impact of a brainwashing party slogan such as ‘strong and stable’).

I have asked on here for examples of marginalisation, as well as which rights transpeople are denied, and met with the usual nil response, but if it is the case that they are marginalised then it should be stopped. There should be no discrimination of any kind, no exclusion, and zero tolerance of hate crimes against any minority.

That should not mean, however, that everyone else should be expected to go along with an ideology that erases women and puts our safety at risk. Children’s activities should remain sex-based where there is a need for segregation (eg sport, toilets and changing), and wear what they like (although uniforms are supported by many), but otherwise so-called ‘gender’ issues should be ignored. Adults should not be forced to declare pronouns or be gaslit into denying the evidence of their eyes. We should be able to use our own language and not have politically motivated changes thrust upon us.

If we had a separate category of transpeople then records could be kept of reliable data, so that any prejudice or discrimination would be apparent and could be prevented. At the same time, separate data would ensure that discrimination against women would also be recorded.

Private preferences needn’t be forced on others. We go to work to do our jobs, and children go to school to learn. Both need protection from discrimination and/or abuse, but neither needs to insist on forcing their world view on everyone.

VioletSky

Why would it be? We have gender neutral pronouns so it's just learning those in a different language or learning less pronouns in languages that are gender neutral only

Sorry but it isn’t. It’s not just a question of pronouns.

Using wrong-sex pronouns is social affirmation.
It helps to cement, in the child's mind, that they really are the opposite sex, or no sex at all, or a fluctuating sex.
That leads to them appearing 'persistent, consistent & insistent' and to them proceeding to hormone treatment and/or surgery.

I would use a child's preferred name but not the wrong pronouns.
I don't think that should be seen as dismissing them. It's keeping them in reality.

For a child who is not a close relative of mine, I would try to avoid using pronouns for them at all.

I should say -
For a 'trans' child who is not a close relative of mine, I would try to avoid using pronouns for them at all.

I don't care what pronoun they use about me. I'd not feel abused if they called me he or she. I'd object to 'it' because the fact is I am and have been alive.

I have always used they or them if I don’t know a person’s sex regardless of their preferred sex if I may phrase it thus. This also applies when I am talking about someone’s pets. So I would say ‘what treat do they like?” in respect of a single dog whose sex I don’t know. Alternatively I would say it but I don’t think that would go down too well with any person.

FarNorth

I should say -
For a 'trans' child who is not a close relative of mine, I would try to avoid using pronouns for them at all.

That’s pretty much what I do, but it’s all but impossible to keep it up when referring to someone who is rarely there, such as a friend’s child. Once it is established that they are the subject of the conversation (eg Has Sam heard about the new job yet?) it is awkward to avoid saying ’him’ or ‘her’ thereafter. ‘When will Sam hear?’, or Give Sam my congratulations’, Will Sam now move to Xtown to be near Sam’s office?’ is as much buying in as using ’they’. It is setting Sam apart from Sarah and Simon, who would naturally be referred to by their sex-based pronouns.

I tend to revert to the relevant sex-based one, as it’s easier all round, and when Sam is in the room there is no need for pronouns at all.

To think that many were concerned that “the elderly” wouldn’t grasp decimalisation, that seems a doddle compared to this. I think those who are planning to avoid “His/Hers” etc wherever possible, have my vote. I have no wish to offend anyone, for me it will be a case of trying to remember. If I get it wrong, for once I hope that it will be put down to being “elderly” rather than offensive.

Sorry Lucca

There is no explanation for your disagreement so I'm not changing my mind on this one

Especially as a lot of my family are fluent in French

There should not be focus on trans people. Trans people quite often prefer a masculine or feminine pronoun

So I don't know why they are being mentioned on a thread that is not about them

25Avalon

I have always used they or them if I don’t know a person’s sex regardless of their preferred sex if I may phrase it thus. This also applies when I am talking about someone’s pets. So I would say ‘what treat do they like?” in respect of a single dog whose sex I don’t know. Alternatively I would say it but I don’t think that would go down too well with any person.

I was once having a coffee at a new neighbours house when her cat walked in.I said what a pretty cat, is she having kittens soon? The cat had a lot of fat hanging down btw.My neighbour laughed and said no he isn’t!
After that I always said ‘it’ 😸

VioletSky

There should not be focus on trans people. Trans people quite often prefer a masculine or feminine pronoun

So I don't know why they are being mentioned on a thread that is not about them

I can understand transpeople wanting to be accepted as the sex they wish they belonged to, but who else (ie other than transpeople) would expect others to use pronouns other than sex-based ones to describe them when they aren't there?

I can't think of anyone.

I think anyone wanting equality of the sexes should be open to and embrace pronouns that aren't gender specific.

Especially those who already use them themselves without noticing and never notice others doing so repeatedly even though they claim otherwise

Whoever they are

I'm open to the use of 'they', or anything else, as a universal pronoun for everyone.

I am not open to using wrong-sex pronouns or personalised pronouns for anyone .

Btw, people forget that 'you' used to be plural or polite, with 'thou' being singular.
Everyone got used to saying 'you' to individuals while 'thou' was ditched.
I don't expect that happened all at once, tho.

Sure

You do you

VioletSky

I think anyone wanting equality of the sexes should be open to and embrace pronouns that aren't gender specific.

Especially those who already use them themselves without noticing and never notice others doing so repeatedly even though they claim otherwise

That is completely different. Using a plural pronoun when you don't know the sex of the person it refers to is normal usage. Of course I know I do it - all English speakers do.

Asking people to use different pronouns, whether plural or 'neo', when the person doing the asking isn't going to be there to hear it seems to me self-obsessed, but obviously YMMV

You mean singular?

I don't have any issues being polite and respectful to people I don't know or have shown me the same

I certainly don't go around having opinions about people I've never even met as if I'm an authority in some way

Thou do thou

No, I meant ‘plural’. ‘They’ is a plural pronoun.

Why do you persist in telling people to be themselves? What makes you think we aren’t doing just that?