Neopronouns

There are two genders. Male and Female. Anyone using anything else or wanting to change the gender they are is deluded and so is anyone pretending they are deluded too to make the deluded one feel better. Time to say 'No'.

I know you are being yourself

Doesn't appeal to me though

Or in other words

You be your authentic self

Others do not have to like or respect your authentic self nor agree with you

But I am not invested either way

VioletSky

Or in other words

You be your authentic self

Others do not have to like or respect your authentic self nor agree with you

But I am not invested either way

You are invested enough to be rude and make personal comments though 😂. Remember that next time you regale us all with how you never do that and are the victim of nasty remarks from others?

‘Be Kind’ is always conditional when it comes to those who use it to virtue signal, but it comes out in the wash.

It's not a personal comment, it's an observation

I'm not invested. Ie: I neither like nor dislike, respect nor disrespect... I just don't agree. Not agreeing is not personal

But what I see is that, that works fine until it matters. Having some types of opinion works fine until its someone you care about who wants to be their authentic self.

I read estrangement forums and I see it all the time

It's awfully sad when it does happen, that opinions on people we don't know and haven't met suddenly turns out to be a person who we do care about.

Opinions over family members feelings well, I see it often and I always have to ask myself, is opinion worth it?

No, no it's not.

Not agreeing is not personal, true. I’ve been saying that on these threads for years when people flounce. The rest of the personal stuff is there for all to see though.

Anyway. There is a thread on MN about children/young people with neurodivergence struggling with the illogicality of plural pronouns at school/college, particularly in exams when used in case studies and the like. People with autism or dyslexia can find it impossible to follow who’s who when things are couched in gender-neutral terms and there are no clues to whether ‘they’ refers to an individual person, whether male or female, or a group of people.

How does an ‘inclusive’ curriculum consider the needs of neurodiverse candidates whilst also couching questions in a way that pretends that sex doesn’t matter?

No idea

My autistic daughter has no such issues

What are the beliefs of those discussing it on mumsnet? Could be a factor

"These threads"

This is not a trans thread, if it becomes one, I will go chat somewhere else

You can call it a flounce if you like...

I call it healthy boundaries, and self respect of my time and energy

I don’t know the beliefs of people on MN, other than some are concerned for their children and I don’t see the relevance of their beliefs to how the issue is managed.

If teachers are setting questions in language that is too confusing (which mangled pronouns can be) then they should be asked to stop, IMO. Putting a personal political agenda ahead of the educational progress of their pupils is surely unprofessional?

I've never had any issue either and I'm not neurotypical

I'm surprised it would be a struggle as they aren't mangled as many have explained and have long been in use.

As I've told you many times my personal opinions and my job are seperate and that is the case for everyone jn education that I personally know

We only indoctrinate children with the curriculum in as holistic a way as possible

My older children have been taught nothing about pronouns or LGTBQ in 2 secondary schools

Lot of fuss about nothing I expect

VioletSky

Sorry Lucca

There is no explanation for your disagreement so I'm not changing my mind on this one

Especially as a lot of my family are fluent in French

And do they have to teach French ? Or German ? Or Italian!

Thanks for not listening or even considering another POV

My close friend has autism, she was talking the other day about the stress/anxiety she feels around the use of pronouns, she has no idea of my views on the subject.

Lucca

Yes they do. I would listen to a valid argumeng but you basically just said "you are wrong"

galaxy

Blimey

Because I can teach 4 year olds all their sounds and all about digraphs and split digraphs and trigraphs while simultaneously teaching them all the ways phonics is absolutely illogical nonsense

There is a whole long list of words that cannot be sounded out at all and must be learned by sight.

Then there are sounds that sound completely different to each other. Examples:

th. Thistle and Then
oo. Look and food

There are many more, the entirety of which is completely illogical and ridiculous but that's literally the first step before we get anywhere near adverbials and extended noun phrases and they all get it, autistic children included unless they are non verbal.

Pronouns in gender neutral form or in the singular or plural do not seem to compare.

I'd explain to that child that, they are like names and nicknames which are also individual, some people prefer different pronouns and it might be difficult to remember or we might make mistakes but that's OK. Which is absolutely nothing to do with teaching anything about LGBTQ people

Sorry your friend, my head immediately went to child

I wouldn't want a friend to be stressed or anxious if I could help them

She doesnt need that kind of explanation, she is part of the LGBTQ community.

What is she specifically finding stressful then?

Knowing it's not true I think. I just let her talk about it.

Let her sounds weird. She doesnt need my permission

Knowing what's not true?

So if its he for a woman for example my friend knows that's not true. The other pronouns it's a constant monitoring of your own speech which can be uncomfortable.

My son is severely dyslexic. He has no problems with using preferred pronouns. Probably because having grown up with a hidden disability he is always conscious that you need to be respectful to the person, and never pre-judge ,or decide on abilities, or any other factor, until you really know and understand the person.

I think attributing misunderstandings to anyone who is neurodivergent indicates an inability to recognise that people who come under this umbrella are as different from each other as any other group of people, and using their disability as a way of trying to project your own prejudices onto a subject is about as low as you can go.

If they have problems with pronouns perhaps it is because the people responsible for helping them to understand are failing to do so. I wonder why?

Galaxy

So if its he for a woman for example my friend knows that's not true. The other pronouns it's a constant monitoring of your own speech which can be uncomfortable.

But it is always "she" for a woman. No matter how masculine you may imagine she looks.
And actually all your friend needs to do is ask politely "which pronoun do you prefer?" Then she knows and doesn't have to worry.

The people responsible for helping her to understand. What on earth are you talking about. Shes an adult woman, with a career etc she doesnt need anyone to help her understand.

VioletSky

No idea

My autistic daughter has no such issues

What are the beliefs of those discussing it on mumsnet? Could be a factor

I know you don't want to discuss trans issues, but given that pronoun use and trans / non binary issues can be linked and that Mumsnet is well known for it's hostility to trans issues, it seems fairly obvious why they'd have very firm opinions on the matter.

(Apologies for the poor sentence construction there!)

galaxy

So your friend who is part of the LGBTQ community and is happy to share her beliefs on sex and gender with you:

Has stress and anxiety about referring to members of her own community

Does not have any idea you share beliefs in common

Cannot alleviate any stress or anxiety by simply using gender neutral pronouns which are in common use

Cannot get any real empathy or understanding from you despite your shared beliefs and friendship

I'm struggling to understand your reasoning here