An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

Shut rather than sh** obviously!

More accusation from you Oreo?

Perhaps dismissing a post as 'silly' is also passive aggressive?
Every day is a learning day on Gransnet.

Why do women who wear the burqa and other forms of "modest" dress feel the need to advertise their modesty?
Who are they signalling their virtue to?
As a woman, I couldn't give a flying f**k how "modest" or not other women are.
Does anyone on here?

Nannee49

Why do women who wear the burqa and other forms of "modest" dress feel the need to advertise their modesty?
Who are they signalling their virtue to?
As a woman, I couldn't give a flying f**k how "modest" or not other women are.
Does anyone on here?

No, me neither. Interestingly on holiday in Turkey a Muslim Turk was saying this to us, about it being a form of virtue signalling.

I guess if a man is your "meal ticket" and he (ie the men you are looking at as "possibles") wants a woman dressed "modestly" then you virtue signal by wearing that?

I guess most women signal what they want in the way they dress? When I was younger I was sorta aiming for a while in "looking for a boyfriend - but no I do NOT mean a one-night hook-up" type direction in the way I was dressing.

I look at videos/photos of young women in "show your knickers" length tight skirts and wonder if they're deliberately signalling "yours just for the night" or no and, until I'd sussed things out a bit, would tend to steer more towards the women in loose trousers instead type get-up for a night out (just in case men mistook me for a temporary hook-up person). Though things may be different these days in that age group to what they were when I was in that age group and maybe the "show your knickers" length type tight skirts don't mean anything these days?

A guess a lot of women of any agegroup will dress a bit in accordance with the women they see as "their group". Maybe/hopefully not as much as they did - I was surprised to see photos of a group of women out for a day out in the 1950s sometimes when I moved here - and even more surprised when I read that the photo was actually taken in the 1980s.

We do dress a lot as a signal for the "group we identify with".

Re the Turkish guys comment - I often got that sort of comment that they thought I was virtue signalling with the way I was often dressed when in Turkey on holiday. Nope - I'd just taken a look at how hot the weather was etc and on went a loose maxi dress and a loose scarf over my head. No I wasn't being "Oh you - Turkish lady". I was dressing for their hot weather and well aware of my fathers skin cancer all over.

Shel1951

For me it boils down to being able to see the face of the person coming towards me.
A lot is told by the expressions on our faces, friendly , unfriendly?, threatening, etc.
I also wouldn't want to come across a person in a full balaclava coming towards me.
I remember a news article where a jewelry shop was raided by 3 men in burka, they couldn't identify them

Do motorcyclists still have to remove their helmets in banks to enable the staff to see their faces? Would a bank be brave enough to apply that ruling to all headgear covering faces?

If that was the law of the land then that would happen.
Practical reasons would prevail.

We are talking about 0.001% of women in the U.K. who wear an burka according to data.

Whitewavemark2

We are talking about 0.001% of women in the U.K. who wear an burka according to data.

But that will vary across the country.

In some areas it will be a case of "never/hardly ever" and I've only seen one in the 12 years I've been here...though I've seen a few headscarves here recently.

In my southern home city there is the very very occasional burqa now. There will be places where there's loads of them being worn - I've seen videos taken in parts of London for instance where darn nearly every woman is wearing cover-up non-Western clothing and there's a noticeable number in burqas.

So it does seem to vary very much according to what part of the country one is in. Welsh Wales = basically non-existent. Roads in England where you have to check the road signs and chainstore names to see if you are still in England = that will be where burqas are sometimes worn basically I'd say. So it's going to be 0% in some areas basically and 10%/maybe more in other areas. It's not evenly spread out.

Not sure if your point. It is still 0.001% of the total population.

The point is that, in some areas of the country, the situation is highly highly unlikely to arise. Whereas there are some places where it will be rather frequent (because of a low proportion of the people living in that area wearing normal Western clothing).

CariadAgain

Re the Turkish guys comment - I often got that sort of comment that they thought I was virtue signalling with the way I was often dressed when in Turkey on holiday. Nope - I'd just taken a look at how hot the weather was etc and on went a loose maxi dress and a loose scarf over my head. No I wasn't being "Oh you - Turkish lady". I was dressing for their hot weather and well aware of my fathers skin cancer all over.

Yes I take your point. .i think this guy wasnt religious and thought the virtue signalling was look how religious I am. At least that is what he said.

Living in an area where seeing one burka in 12 years, doesn’t qualify a person as an expert it what is ‘normal western clothing ‘

Iam64

Living in an area where seeing one burka in 12 years, doesn’t qualify a person as an expert it what is ‘normal western clothing ‘

As 0.001% = less than a 1000 women in total, most of us will never see a burka in our daily lives. In fact I have never seen anyone in the U.K. wearing one.

I have seen ladies in full totally black covering except her eyes - niqab and abaya including gloves in posh shops in London, but I suspect they were tourists from Saudi.

99.9% of Muslims women I see - and that quite rarely - wear a simple headscarf.

It wasn’t long ago - well my mothers era, when a lady never left the house without a hat and gloves - different style of course, but my mother always wore a hat. The Queen was fond of headscarves.

Yes I remember the oppression linked with headscarves.

Galaxy

Yes I remember the oppression linked with headscarves.

Your argument is reductionist as well as stereotypical. Oppression happens everywhere.

How many women have you sat with whose husbands forced them to wear gloves? In the modern day I mean.
I view it as a symbol of misogyny, as I repeatedly say accusing me of racism, or stereotypical thinking doesn't impact me. I have heard it all before.

Galaxy

How many women have you sat with whose husbands forced them to wear gloves? In the modern day I mean.
I view it as a symbol of misogyny, as I repeatedly say accusing me of racism, or stereotypical thinking doesn't impact me. I have heard it all before.

As far as I am concerned a niqab and burqa are physically and psycholgically the same thing. They cover women over with a cloth, like putting a cover on a a parrot cage. they dehumanise her and are thee to make her anon-person.

i cannot think of a single situation where having one person covered by a shroud makes them an immediate person of attention and leadership within a group. No one can see them, nor hear them properly, we cannot read their body language.

Galxy is right, opposing the burqa has nthing to do with racism nor, stereotypical thought. I am with her all the way.

Well said Monica. Cover on a parrot cage made me laugh. 🤣

So few women in the UK wearing a burja, and all living rent free in so many GN minds.

Nope not living rent free, just part of a feminist discussion that happens everywhere, probably to a less extent on GN than elsewhere.

Opposing the burka? I’m not a fan of burkas, niqab, or other head covering. Some of the orthodox Jewish community expect the women to cover their heads, or cover their hair with a wig.
It’s all about the view of women as dangerous sex sirens. Show their hair, their legs, bare arms or good forbid a bit of cleavage and the poor men won’t be able to contain themselves

The thing is though, I’m white British so although I’m familiar with casual misogyny and oppression of women in my culture, I’ve never lived in an orthodoxy that expects me to stay inside, silent like women in Afghanistan or to cover myself in they ways described.

I agree with your broad points MOnics but your comparison with a parrot in a cage made me cringe. The women in the burka or the niqab are living their lives the best way they can p, as are we,

Maremia

So few women in the UK wearing a burja, and all living rent free in so many GN minds.

Never think of it unless it's mentioned on Gransnet.

My mind is fully occupied with many other things although it can expand!