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Second waves - dealing with the virus part 2 ??

(232 Posts)
MawB Tue 23-Jun-20 08:59:01

It’s not gone, it’s not even going to be gone - but it’s how we deal with it that will make the difference.
Beijing faced lockdown after reporting an outbreak last week after being declared virus-free for a whole day.
An Anglesey chicken plant has had 175 new cases recently.
Germany has had a serious outbreak in and around Gütersloh starting in an abattoir and meat processing plant, it is suspected involving unsanitary living conditions for migrant workers.
Berlin has had a surge in the poor and densely populated Neu-Kölln area of the city
And now South Korea , previously held up as a shining example is facing a worrying surge as health authorities in South Korea admitted yesterday it was experiencing a “second wave” in Seoul.
Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is reported as saying it had become clear that a holiday weekend in early May marked the start of a new wave of infections in the densely populated greater Seoul area, which had previously seen few cases.
There are some common factors such as working temperatures in the meat processing plants but also the lamentable living conditions where migrant workers have been involved and of course predictable consequences in lapses in social distancing, but in all cases prompt identification, testing, tracking and isolating have been paramount in stopping these second waves from becoming countrywide.
I just hope that this time the government and our public health authorities can learn from the experience of others.

MawB Tue 23-Jun-20 12:34:43

Maybee I understand that the chilled conditions which are necessary to keep meat etc bacteria free are not ideal for the virus and actually aid it in its survival.
That is why scientists and doctors are more concerned about next autumn/Winter.

MayBee70 Tue 23-Jun-20 12:37:10

One professor (can’t remember who it was ) said he’d been studying viruses like this for many years but had never come across one so mind baffling.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jun-20 12:38:41

I’m already thinking about access to and availability of the flu jab. I keep wondering about the logistics at GP surgeries given the mass cattle flu jab clinics they usually have - no complaints in normal times.

Sussexborn Tue 23-Jun-20 12:53:25

We can get free flu jabs from various pharmacies but have to make an appointment at the GP surgery.

MawB is usually the voice of common sense and reason so doesn’t go down well with those who believe every word printed in the Guardian.

They screech if Boris is in the media then screech again if he isn’t.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jun-20 13:02:02

Oh fgs why are some of you trying to turn this into a bunfight again. Maws post did have implied and reasonable criticism of the government including the need for a properly functioning TT and I system which surely no one can argue we yet have? Her post was , I thought, a clear summary of where we are now ( which is not that everything is fine and caution is still needed)

Callistemon Tue 23-Jun-20 13:08:08

I don't always have the flu jab but the thing about flu is that many of them are mutations of what has gone around previously.
Swine flu was, of course, another type of influenza and I remember being quite ill after having that.

Will the vaccine be inert or live? Many groups are not allowed to have a live vaccination.

There are many questions to which no-one yet has all the answers.

Callistemon Tue 23-Jun-20 13:10:19


Maybee I understand that the chilled conditions which are necessary to keep meat etc bacteria free are not ideal for the virus and actually aid it in its survival.
That is why scientists and doctors are more concerned about next autumn/Winter.

I did wonder, as I put frozen groceries into the freezer, if the 72 hour window before the virus died would still be the same on frozen food.

MawB Tue 23-Jun-20 13:11:51

I may be guessing, but I think frozen will be fine, whereas chilled may not be. Although again, it may be the working conditions which enable the virus to “last longer”

Callistemon Tue 23-Jun-20 13:12:46

Grannygravy and, like COVID19, the common cold is one of a range of Corona viruses.

Jane10 Tue 23-Jun-20 13:21:24

Just a thought but I usually cook my frozen food. Wouldn't thar see off any bugs/viruses?

Callistemon Tue 23-Jun-20 13:23:28

I re-read my post and it wasn't very clear

I didn't have swine flu but I did have the vaccination and was ill afterwards.

Callistemon Tue 23-Jun-20 13:24:27


Just a thought but I usually cook my frozen food. Wouldn't thar see off any bugs/viruses?

Yes, but I was thinking on the packaging rather than the contents.
Although we put bread in the freezer too.

growstuff Tue 23-Jun-20 13:29:46

Nobody should rely on any vaccine for the foreseeable future. Questions about whether it will be inert or live are premature.

The only thing we, as individuals, can do is mitigate risk.

Last weekend, I left the house for the first time since mid March. I went to Tesco and to a garden centre. On both occasions, I had to queue, which was fine. The garden centre had hardly any customers and the assistant took contactless payment, so that was fine too.

However, I was quite shocked by the behaviour of some people in Tesco. The store was well organised and I noticed that all trollies and baskets were being wiped down. Hand sanitiser was available.

People weren't following the one way system, people were chatting in the aisles, closer than two metres apart and stopping people from passing safely. Others were just leaning over me and not respecting my distance at all. I saw people in the road, including same sex pairs and groups of similar age (usually middle aged) and larger groups of younger people, who probably aren't related.

According to the KCL Covid-19 tracker, 0.3% of people between 20-69 in my area are currently showing symptoms. Hopefully, those people are self-isolating, but there will be a similar number of people who are infected but not yet showing symptoms. That means that 1 in 333 people is infected. I probably saw just over a 100 people when I went out, so the chances are quite small that one of those people is infected. Nevertheless, there is a risk and it's one that could be avoided if people were more thoughtful.

Lucca Tue 23-Jun-20 13:55:57

MawB. You are a realist I am sure, and I realise from sussexborns post that posters who have previously shown themselves to espouse beliefs of centre or centre left Would have been in Trouble if they had posted as you did !!

Who has been screeching by the way ?!

Lucca Tue 23-Jun-20 13:57:52

Anyway it’s all over now seemingly. Cafes restaurants etc re opening 4/7. One metre distancing if indeed anybody is still bothering with distancing.
I’m going to be honest and say I’m a bit anxious. Hope that doesn’t make me a doom and gloom merchant.

Callistemon Tue 23-Jun-20 14:08:15

Someone suggested that Tracy Daszkiewicz should be put in charge.
She's the Director of Public Health for the South-west

growstuff Tue 23-Jun-20 14:12:58

Not at all Lucca. It makes you a realist.

Jane10 Tue 23-Jun-20 14:26:27

I notice that the death rate near up has plunged below the average for the time of year. Its the same in a number or other areas which is interesting. In Scotland yesterday we had 15 new cases and no deaths. That seems hopeful to me. Fortunately I have not contracted the prevailing idiocy and will carry on as seems appropriate for me.
The Covid tracker data is really interesting and worth checking especially the paper that they shared with the government. The R was very well below 1 in a lot of areas and not above 1 in any of them.
I've signed up to take part in several of their trials.

Jane10 Tue 23-Jun-20 14:26:53

Sigh. Near us

MaizieD Tue 23-Jun-20 14:39:47

The excess death rate for Scotland may have 'plunged' below average for Scotland but it hasn't for England and Wales. It has come down a lot, but for w/e 12th June it's 459 above the average.

And if the daily figures we're being given are anywhere near correct, the number of new infections reported daily is still above 1,000 (apart from yesterday's) and not showing much sign of improvement. That's what I'm finding a bit concerning.

Jane10 Tue 23-Jun-20 15:22:02

Have you checked the section on the Covid tracker with the specific data? It's well worthwhile. I think you can only access it once you've inputted your daily info.

MawB Tue 23-Jun-20 15:28:28

Do you mean the C-19 app? I do that daily and the information is still generalised. I can find out much more specific data about more localised areas elsewhere, and there have been some surprising results and not in a good way.

growstuff Tue 23-Jun-20 15:35:48

The results for local authorities are here:

Let's all visit Scotland!

growstuff Tue 23-Jun-20 15:36:16

You can access it without inputting anything.

AGAA4 Tue 23-Jun-20 15:50:02

Scientists are concerned about the opening of pubs and restaurants with the one metre rule now. Some think it is too soon.
I understand that these businesses need to make money soon but if there is a second wave some may have to close for ever.
I hope if there is second wave of Covid it will be handled better than the first.