no vaccine for under 50s says vaccine head in UK

varian

What do you expect growstuff when 82% of our national newspapers are owned by foreign billionaires and tax exiles with an extreme right wing agenda?

I don't expect any different. That's why I'm keen that people have the opportunity to have a more balanced view.

This pandemic has shown up some gaping holes in social support.

It is possible to support the unemployed financially. There could be more robust measures to prevent domestic abuse and support those suffering from it. Mental health services have been underfunded for years - better funding could alleviate sever depression and even prevent suicides. All of that just requires a will to do something.

Schools and universities would be able to run planned courses smoothly, if more thought had been put into providing blended courses, rather than pretending there wouldn't be any issues.

Unfortunately, treatments for Covid-19 and "long Covid" are still in their infancy. I can see no justification at all for letting infection run amok amongst the population, even those who are supposed to be low risk.

It is shameful that the government will not commit to retaining the extra £20 per week in Universal Credit.

varian

It is shameful that the government will not commit to retaining the extra £20 per week in Universal Credit.

It certainly is. It's also shameful that people with savings or with a spouse/partner in employment aren't even eligible to receive it.

I've been wondering what will happen if there really are a million newly unemployed when furlough ends. Many of those people will probably never have claimed benefits before. I've already read about people who have had to claim and have been horrified at how little people receive. I wonder if it will be a wake-up call to the complacent.

With scientists and virologists so divided themselves as to what is the best way of dealing with Corona - seems to leave each person to decide for themselves.

Yes, I do not agree with Herd Immunity (at least not until such time we might get a vaccine), however, neither am I at all willing to sacrifice our younger generations to decades of total austerity and financial insecurity.

So, having to try to make up my own mind - all I can do is to repeat that ALL priorities must be given to keeping our children in school, our young people in their colleges, unis etc. To trying to keep hospitality, film and art industries operating.

I do find the constant doom laden posts from Growstuff - more than slightly over the top. According to them, this particular virus is likely to kill most of us off (patently incorrect), will leave those who manage not to die with life-time health problems (patently untrue), and the only way for us to deal with this is for all of us to lock ourselves away from everything and everybody for a undisclosed period of time.

Sadly, I know Growstuff does not support Trump, but this poster does seem to following his idea that if you repeat total exaggerations and untruths often, and emphatically enough, then they become facts.

BlueBelle

Exactly griwstuff so the elderly infirm or frightened stay at home and the rest get on with keeping the economy going by working, school etc etc What other way is there ?

Exactly BlueBelle that's the only answer ( at the moment).
If anyone under fifty wants to take my place in the queue they are welcome because I won't be taking the vaccine.

That's your choice Franbern. Personally I'm sick to death of people who won't take responsibility and face up to the truth.

As one of the "infirm", I find it extremely selfish that people would wish to lock me up rather than wearing their masks and respecting a safe distance.

BUT......it is so much more than 'wearing a mask and staying a safe distance'......That is fine, and I totally agree that is what it should be about.

But, NOT virtually closing down hospitality industry, with its tens of thousands of employees, NOT trying to stop children attending their schools, NOT having a go at Students for acting ...well,, ...like students and young people usually do. NOT preventing people going to funerals or being able to visit each others homes. NOT continuing destroying the whole fabric of the economy resulting in future decades of misery for hundreds of thousands of people, and probably far more deaths than anything this virus in itself could cause. NOT having a Corono Virus Health Service, instead a properly run and funded NHS to treat the very many both serious and less serious illnesses and conditions effecting so many people. And NOT to use fear as the way to control us all.

We could discuss WHO is being the most selfish -You with your desire to bring the whole of society to a standstill due to the fact that you are infirm - or me (at nearly 80 yrs old and, yes, with underlying health conditions), who wants to give total priority to our next generations to have a reasonable life.

I agree with you Franbern.

Everyone should wear masks when required and not be selfishly arrogant. Everyone should follow social distancing and not pretend it doesn’t matter. Everyone should wash their hands regularly and use sanitiser when they’re outside or in public buildings.

But society cannot be locked down tightly to protect the oldest and those with other conditions. We cannot wash our hands of the people who will be made unemployed by a constant lockdown, and then complain that unemployment benefits are too low. The answer is to keep as many people in employment as possible. Sometimes it will be necessary to lock down certain areas for a short time, or certain workplaces or schools to deep clean and then restart, but not to lockdown and deprive children of education, workers of employment, the sick of the treatment they need from the NHS. Already people have died because their cancer treatment was halted during the first national lockdown. I cannot see how we can have national lockdown without untold damage to people’s lives.

I know who I think is being selfish.

I think some of your points are valid franbern. I agree that we should do all we can to ensure that children and young people can continue with their education. And I can see that we need to protect the economy by maintaining as normal a life as possible.

But I do take issue with your approach when it comes to the NHS. The reason that some services are limited or gave been suspended is because people are just behaving in a back to normal way and the virus is spreading again.

My family are working in the NHS One who is a consultant, were jyst

It went before I finished.

One who is a consultant was just working his way through the back log and now he is back treating Covid patients, mostly elderly ones wh, like you, wanted to be out and about and doing.

This is a tine when, more than ever, our choices impact on othets

I do find the constant doom laden posts from growstuff - more than slightly over the top ........ if you repeat total exaggerations and untruths often, and emphatically enough, then they become facts.
I have to agree Franbern that a perpetual doom and gloom attitude is unhealthy and dangerous. It serves only to drag people into a state of despondency. There's a beautiful world out there with great opportunities for so many to seize and enjoy, but in today's world all that is dependant on the economy working at full pelt. This is a different generation which by nature takes more risks, has perhaps a more hedonistic attitude to life and is not as considerate towards the weaknesses of others, but at the end of the day it is THEIR time.

One of my grandchildren is an only child. For the months of lockdown he never saw another child! That was for nearly four months! He saw his parents and no one else. They live in a house in a country area, in fact the next house next door is barely visible from their garden. They live forty miles from us and so couldn’t call round and have a quick chat over the garden wall, as his cousins did. He’s eight years old, he was seven during lockdown. So for almost four months this little boy saw no one except his parents.

Is his normal social and emotional development a price worth paying? Is it fair to condemn a child to live like this for months at a time? What about all the other children who lived in similar circumstances during lockdown? Does anyone care?

Treatment wasn't halted because of lockdown. It was halted because the medical staff were deployed to the Covid wards. Because of the number of cases.

There are only so many medical professionals able to work so many hours.

If we want other treatments to continue we have to keep the Covid infections low.

Or decide that Covid patients will due to ensure other treatments go ahead.

Has anyone listened to the Programme on radio 4 'The importance of Touch"
One quote from it touch enhances your immune system
I would ask some posters who are still very fearful to listen to it.

Illte
We must endeavour to both treat Covid patients and treat patients with other conditions. Of course we need to ensure that in order to do that Covid must not be allowed to rip through the population. Therefore older people must behave sensibly and follow the rules, and there must be some restrictions on others too, in order to contain the virus as much as possible. Where the virus rips out of control, like in Manchester, then temporary lockdowns may need to be brought in, sadly with the loss of jobs that will follow, but where possible, we should endeavour to keep people able to go about their business, taking all the proper precautions. This will help to protect jobs.

And children can never be sacrificed on the alter of paying homage to the old. It’s simply immoral. As a mother, a grandparent, and an ex teacher, I can never support another lockdown of schools.

Incidentally, my daughter and her husband are both doctors. I don’t want to see them both exposed to the danger of Covid again. They have three young children who need them.

Maddyone
does anyone care? I care, I care very much for these children and older people who are still hunkered down in their homes listening and reading all the gloom and doom.
Do they read that more people have died from flu and pneumonia in the past month than have died from covid, no.

Thanks Meryl
I know most care, but sometimes someone will give the impression that the old are far more important than the young.
I care so much about our children, both our own grandchildren and other children. Their healthy social and emotional development is so important in the early years especially. But I also care very much about my elderly mother, 92 years old. And I try hard to keep her safe, by shielding her, advising her, and shopping for her. But she has social needs too, and I try to make sure she goes out somewhere safe each week, it may just be our house, but I do try.

Well yes, it would be good if we could treat everybody, but as you'll know, doctors can only treat so many people in a day. So if the virus continues to spread choices have to be made.

Actually, the best thing that "oldies" can do to support the young and the economy, is to stay out of trouble as much as they can, not live like normal.

If you really care, don't make yourself part of the problem.

Absolutely Illte.
Actually I live in a part of the country where the virus is still low so not such a problem for me yet.
Today I saw four men sitting at a table having a pint together, admittedly outside in a pub garden. This was on the lunchtime news. No masks, certainly no social distancing. They looked retired maybe 70 or a bit more. I doubt they all lived in the same house, probably not even from the same family.
They were in Manchester. Says it all really doesn’t it!

Afraid so. Not just that though. I know some who, whilst religiously sticking to Rule of six, are doing visits to different people every day. And can't see that's an even more effective virus spread.

I, like my family, am in a high infection area. The beds are filling up again, with mostly old people, who were not going to let Covid tell them how to live.

It is now.

Sometimes, compassion needs to be taken into account.
So, last week I did make a visit to long-time friend. Sadly, she is very disabled with multiple conditions and has carers coming in two or three times a day.
However, her husband of 54 yrs - who was her main carer sadly caught this virus last March (When he was in hospital), came home, before it was realised, infected his wife - who survived - with no after effects, but died himself. The day I visited was six months to the day of his death............
Yes, she has children, gr.children, g.g.children reasonably nearby - but is finding life very, very difficult. So, I had been staying with my daughter and took an hour or so for this visit. I washed my hands as I entered the house, and upon leaving, did not have anything to eat or drink there - did not rbreak any rules BUT could be said that as I was staying for a few days with my daughter and g.daughter, and then visiting this woman people like ilte and Growstuff would say I was acting selfishly and irresponsibly. I do not think so, my visit helped her on particlarly difficult day.

I also had a visit (in my daughters home) of my SiL, who is suffering from clinical depression, largely caused by the death of her eldest= child last April (aged 51 yrs old) when his chemo was abruptly stopped. She has kept telling people that it is me she wants to see and have a chat with, but we live too far away from each other for that to have been possible. She spent the day with me - we talked and talked, she mainly about her son (I can so well remember that need), when she saw her daughter the following day - it was noted how much better she appeared.
Yes, this meant that over five days, I did mix with several different households - with the exception of my daughter where I was staying, all elderly people. Was I irresponsible - well, I do not feel that I was.
Humans are social creatures......we need company and denial of this can be extremely harmful.

No Franbern, you were not irresponsible. You acted within the law, and applied all reasonable precautions, hand washing, social distancing, etc. You acted with compassion, and that makes you a very good person. What kind of society are we if we simply slam the door in the face of need?
My father wrote in my autograph book when I was a child, ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ This aptly describes your behaviour.

It could be years before a vaccine is available. It could give (limited) protection for just a few months. It's just not much of a solution, so why worry in advance?

It seems that the best way forward is for us all to do whatever we can to contain the virus.

For most people that must mean following all the guidelines and rules - washing hands, using hand sanitizer, wearing masks, keeping at least 2m away from others and as far as possible avoiding meeting people from different households.

For those of us who are old or vulnerable it means staying at home as much as possible and avoiding allowing others into our homes.

It is not a case of "either/or" - it has to be both.