Is it ethical to require a vaccine passport for entry to a club?

greenlady102

JaneJudge

I think it is being used so that more people get vaccinated too, maybe I am cynical

Is it ethical the passport seems to require an app?

you can get an official printed copy of your vaccine staus

ohhh can you? ere from?

esgt1967

Being vaccinated doesn't mean you aren't infected with the virus so I don't see why just proving you have been vaccinated allows you entry to places over those who haven't - you could have the virus and they might not!

I'm 54 and have had both vaccinations and whilst entering a nightclub again will never happen, I may wish to visit a venue where "Covid passports" will be required in the future. No problem for me obviously but if I happen to be with a friend who isn't vaccinated (for whatever reason), it doesn't seem fair that I am allowed in but he/she isn't - see my earlier comment regarding one or both of us possibly still being infected, regardless of vaccination status.

I feel for the younger generation who are effectively being forced to be vaccinated otherwise they won't be able to enjoy the "normal" things that young people do. Covid isn't the only nasty virus/illness that we can catch from being too close to someone who is infected and, vaccinated or not, we can all still have it.

Some of the comments on this Forum are getting quite nasty, I had hoped that I had found a site that wasn't aggressive and judgemental like others I had been on (we are all entitled to our own opinion) but Gransnet seems to be going down the same road so think I may well not bother looking at it in future.

no it doesn't mean you WON'T be infected, it means you are less likely to be infected and less likely to infect others. Its not the crowd in the nightclub that are at risk, its the people who they are close to in shops, on transport, at home and so on....same with you and your theoretical friend, you are less likely to pass it around than they are.

i understand the reasoning behind it but worry about the logistics. Are clubs going to have enough staff? Are we going to see queues of young potential drunk adults going down the road keeping residents awake whilst the clubs try to view every passport. God help us if its raining. What happens if the phone network goes down or the app doesnt work. So what next? Are we going to have to have flu vaccine passports or certificates to say we dont have novovirus which the news tells us is spreading like wildfire in the community. This is a case of the young likely to infect the young. Yes i know they could bring it into the community or get long covid but so could any vaccinated adult of any age as there is so much we still dont know about the vaccine and the length of immunity. Young care workers are likely to leave the profession in their droves soon when the mandatory vaccination comes in and clubs will close in droves. It doesnt affect most of us but for those who have built up their businesses its devastating. Im on the fence here.

I was on a FB group listening to BJ live taking abput the passport., I commented that i thought it was a good thing and would encourage the young to get their jab! I was answered with a torrent of abusive comments calling me selfish, a miserable elderly person, a foolish........! The Geneva convention was mentioned ? i guess that the young ones aren't too happy but it did make me laugh!

MoorlandMooner

Muffinthemoo. I am sorry to hear you've had Covid twice and hope you've made a good recovery.

We agree that evidence shows it is possible for those unvaccinated and those vaccinated to pass on Covid.

I will be honest and face a barrage here.....I have chosen not to have the vaccine. I have my reasons which are nothing to do with facebook conspiracy theories - I don't have facebook.

It's also not because I couldn't be bothered and I have never worn a foil hat - yet! My reason is because I saw my grandmother and mother die of blood clots and, whilst I would much rather not die just yet, if I have to I will take my chance of dying of Covid rather than go through the agony they did.

I will certainly reconsider my decision when it is possible for me to choose the vaccine I am given.

I live in a remote place, with very low Covid rates. I encounter very few people from whom to catch the virus or pass it on. Having read the data I have made a reasoned judgement and will face the consequences.

It might be the wrong decision, but it is my decision. I am not relying on anyone else having the vaccine to protect me. I follow all other guidelines to the letter when I go out, mask, distance, sanitizer. And when I say go out...I mean I walk alone in the hills, swim alone in the sea or go to the supermarket weekly.

If because I don't have a vaccine passport I am unable to go anywhere at all including my nearest supermarket then that is how I will have to live. I'm not sure it is fair as both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can pass on the virus....and perhaps it could be true that a vaccinated person without a mask who goes to the pub or football or clubbing might be more likely to pass on the virus to me at the supermarket, than me them. Still, I will fully accept the decision and live by the rules.

To be called a 'plague bearer' and judged before you know my story is very harsh.

I owe you an apology. I was snippy and took it out on you, which is not acceptable. I have a friend in her mid forties who is having a very high risk pregnancy and is refusing her vaccine - 60% of pregnany women in the UK currently are - because the guidance on whether or not it is safe for mother and baby has abruptly changed. I am scared for her, and was arguing elsewhere on Facebook with our mutual anti-vaxxing friends that if those who COULD safely be vaccinated would go and do it, they would lower the risk for those who can't.

I agree entirely that people should be offered a choice of vaccine, and I understand from NHS contacts that the reason this is not being done is that most people will refuse the AstraZeneca. I hope that this policy will be reversed as the Moderna supplies come online.

I am very sorry for your losses, and again, I apologise.

I don't get it if I am honest; I have nothing against covid passports for night clubs but why put them in place 2 months after they have reopened - by then who knows what infections have spread?
I struggle to understand most of the things the govt does. There is talk of key workers (including those working with some of society's most vulnerable health-wise) who get "pinged" by the app (which govt ministers cannot agree is mandatory or advisory but given that large numbers of people never installed it in the first place and many of those who did have deleted it I cannot see how it can be mandatory) being able to test and release - but for work only while others have to isolate. I am totally confused.com - to the point I just give up!

I should have added I guess - will it really matter because I think that by the end of Sept we will be back in lockdown again. I sincerely hope I am wrong but fear I will be proved right

One point I've not seen anyone discuss here is the side effects of the jabs and how this is deeply concerning for young people.

I'm double jabbed because my surgery told me I was high risk due to blood clots. Ironic then that the next day it was all over the news that AZ can cause blood clots!
I personally know a 42 year old whose leg went black and blue within hours of his second AZ jab because he developed clots and a woman in her 30's in hospital after 3 strokes caused by the jab.
They are now widely reporting changes to womens periods and false symptoms of cervical cancer as side effects.
Please bear all this in mind before judging young people who are possibly terrified of putting their health at risk. They're not all being selfish!

With regards to vaccinating healthy children against covid, I think this is extremely selfish of adults.
Healthy children have almost zero chance of becoming seriously ill from covid but I've heard so many people say they want the children vaccinated to protect adults.
Will they soon stop children attending school/play centres/parks if their parents won't allow them to have the vaccine?

We really need to start looking at the bigger picture here because it won't end with nightclubs and this governments handling of the whole covid situation has been a complete sh@t show!

Sorry MoorlandMooner - I missed your post.
I'm sorry to hear of your losses.
I think fear has driven so many people to judge others without really considering they may have strong reasons for refusing the vaccine.

No it's not ethical in any way. Its the first step in creating a two tier society. It's also another way for the government to introduce ID cards without having to go through parliament to do it, that's probably why they are aiming it at pubs and clubs, so they make all 18+ have ID cards.

WoodLane7

I don't get it if I am honest; I have nothing against covid passports for night clubs but why put them in place 2 months after they have reopened - by then who knows what infections have spread?
I struggle to understand most of the things the govt does. There is talk of key workers (including those working with some of society's most vulnerable health-wise) who get "pinged" by the app (which govt ministers cannot agree is mandatory or advisory but given that large numbers of people never installed it in the first place and many of those who did have deleted it I cannot see how it can be mandatory) being able to test and release - but for work only while others have to isolate. I am totally confused.com - to the point I just give up!

Because they are trying to be reasonable. By the end of september its expected that all over 18's and some who are younger will have been offered two vaccinations. This means that no one except those who are medically advised not to be vaccinated will be excluded from stuff. Those who have been medically advised not to be vaccinated probabaly shouldn't be in crowded indoor spaces anyway.

My gs works part-time as a bouncer. He is on the door and has to check everyone for drugs so it would be quite easy to check a passport and I agree with it.

If we cast our mind back a few decades, it was mooted by the government at the time that National ID cards would be a way (what way?) forward. I remember reading an impassioned rebuttal of any such notion by a rather right wing journalist, one Boris Johnson in another incarnation. It rather impressed me as I am very suspicious of such state control. That is why I am somewhat sceptical about the current debate. Seems a sensible idea, but just where might it lead?

I'm guessing here so please don't shout me if I'm wrong but I would imagine that for those people who "genuinely can't have the vaccine for medical reasons" should be able to get some type of exemption certificate.

I have a blue badge which proves my disability when I'm parking my car in a disabled parking space, surely something similar (electronic and linked to the NHS covid vaccine passport system) should be made available.

Maddyone, thank you so much for your thoughtful and supportive post.

Alegrias1, I'm so sorry you were so poorly and are left with impaired health. That was such a kind post and thank you for sharing your story which is very relevant and helpful.

You've both encouraged me to speak to my GP. I'm very grateful to you. I'd expected a barrage of criticism and instead I received help and support.

Donnab31, Thank you!!

Muffinthemoo, Apology totally accepted. I can understand entirely why you feel so strongly So very kind of you to write such a lovely post. I do hope your friend and her baby stay safe....you sound like a very good friend to her.

It is wholly unethical and a form of social control. This is like living in a communist country. Also what happens if you lose your vaccine proof. I have lost the vaccine card for my first jab.

You're welcome MoorlandMooner. Do let us know if you decide to go ahead.

Seconded MoorlandMooner. I agree, let us know what you decide

Just been scrolling through bits and bobs and I hadn’t noticed that it’s now mandatory for Health Care staff in care homes to be fully vaccinated for Covid-19.

M0nica

What has ethics got to do with it? Did she say? what ethic did she have in mind?

I think it’s the implied coercion. It is compelling people to have the vaccine in order to participate in various activities. In this country, all clinical procedures have always required informed consent. It is part of the Nuremberg code, developed to prevent the sort of medical experimentation that happened in Nazi Germany. Once you remove the safeguard that people have the right to freely consent to (or decline) a medical procedure, you are in very dangerous ethical territory.

Social control is stopping people from peaceful protest and planning to prosecute journalists who write articles about the government that may be true but will cause the government embarrassment. Not stopping people from spreading a deadly virus. imo I think this is what Cummings spoke about last night. Get people talking about one particular thing so you can slip through something else far worse.

I will write again to get into Hampton Court Flower Show, hardly a clubbing event I had to show proof of two jabs my 14 year old grandchild show proof of a negative lateral flow test. So no vaccinating children and those who will not or cannot have the vaccine there is your answer.

I thought, correct me if I’m wrong, that all the clubbers shown on the news the other night, who were celebrating clubs reopening, had to show proof of a negative lateral flow test before they were allowed entry.

You mean like everyone had to show one when they went to Wembley the other week?

Our local nightclubs want proof of double vaccination or a negative test taken within the last 48 hours to be admitted. I see nothing wrong with this - its clearly devised to encourage more under 30s to get vaccinated. I do think the app should provide provision for the small number of people who cannot be vaccinated due to allergies or other reasons. A nightclub at any time is a breeding ground for germs - making vaccine status mandatory from September seems sensible to me as it allows time for more under 30s to get double vaccinated.