Austria puts unvaccinated into lockdown

Bluecat, it is a big step from making it mandatory for people to take common sense precautions such as wearing masks, keeping safe distance, scrupulous hygiene etc., to uniformed officials stopping you in the street asking to see your papers. I am very sorry for the situation with your DD and hope she is recovering well, but not all NHS problems can be laid at the door of covid19, although it undoubtedly has made a bad situation far worse. I have had both vaccines but know this does not mean I am incapable of catching or of passing on the infection, I think perhaps this needs to be emphasised.

sazz1

Just thinking about this how are they going to police it? Will they stop people on the street and ask for proof of vaccine? To do that they will need the largest police force in the world.

Unfortunately a police state doesn’t need that many police.
After, say, half a dozen have been arrested everyone falls into line. Fear ?

varian

Not only are masks compulsory on public transport and indoor public spaces in Austria, they have to be medical grade masks, not just any old face covering or disposable masks.

Austria is at the heart of Europe, with seven or eight land borders, which makes it more vulnerable.

All these compulsory masks and they still can't control the infection rate

Sparklefizz

I forgot to say that she caught Covid from the anti-vaxxer.

I’m not challenging you but it’s not possible to know where or exactly when or from whom you catch Covid from. We can make assumptions based on where we have been and who with but I don’t think we can be sure.

Either way, your hairdresser must be very upset and worried.

maddyone

If everyone was doing lateral flow tests as requested, we would be unlikely to have Covid and be unaware. However, it could happen because nothing is foolproof.

Sparklefizz what a terrible story. The hairdresser must be livid that an anti-vaxxer should cause so many people to be ill. How selfish these anti-vaxxers are. I wonder if she knew but ignored it because she didn’t feel ill. Or was she antisocial enough to go to the hairdresser both unvaccinated and untested?

maddyone you and I often agree so I feel that you will understand what I'm about to say.

This post is entirely speculation and is just blaming and ascribing bad intent to somebody you have never met.

First of all, how the hairdresser, who presumably meets dozens of people every day, knows that she got Covid from this particular one, we don't know. And its completely unfair to start saying that this person took action that she knew would intentionally hurt somebody else. You and I know nothing about it. And, I dare say, neither does Sparklefizz

If that's the way to maybe encourage the unvaccinated to get jabbed to get out and about, I'm all for it.

It's exceptionally rare to know where you got the virus from if out and about.

One can assume but not be certain.

I think it's fair that unvaccinated people should be restricted - why let them put other people at risk? But how would it be policed?

Katie59

In Austria masks are mandatory in all indoor places so that the risk of transmission is lower, some require vaccination
certificates.
It’s the duty of any government to provide civil protection and we have all sorts of laws to limit our ability to harm others. If there is a penalty for using a racist remark which may be unpleasant but not life threatening, surely there should be a penalty when an infection is known to be life threatening.

It’s not a question of civil liberty, you don’t have the right to harm others.

"Not having a vaccine"

is not the same as "harming others."

This thread is scary.

Maybe they could have a bell round their neck and gasp out unclean when walking past people

I also think its indicative of the complete lack of understanding among so many posters, of how vaccination programs work as a public health measure.

I totally take your points Alegrias. You and I often do agree, and with regard to disagreement, it is allowed and acceptable. No problem at all Alegrias.

I don’t think some people realise what this us & them attitude can have on a population.
I lived in an eastern block country for 5 years. I had young friends who weren’t even born when the Berlin Wall was pulled down, and yet, from word of mouth from their parents/grandparents were very dis- trustful of friends and neighbours.
I’ve been in conversation with many elderly people in Spain over the years. Many of those are distrustful having lived through the Franco years.

It will be interesting to see if the Austrian lockdown actually has any positive effect.

Apparently one-third of the Austrian population has refused to be vaccinated.

Something has to be done in countries that either have a steep rise in cases of Covid19 again, or a large number of people who refuse the vaccination.

I am not certain Austrian politicians have chosen the wisest step here, but it is hard to know what, if anything, would work better.

In Denmark we are back to having to show our corona passport, which anyone with any sense would simply have called a vaccination certificate, as that is what it is. Talk too of bring in compulsory use of masks again.

Not that the use of masks seems to be doing much good in Germany, when you see the figures there.

I certainly put one on though before going into the polling station for our local elections this morning.

Actually I know exactly where I got Covid from, pre vaccination, last December. My elderly mother was hospitalised after a fall. She was discharged from hospital with Covid, although we were initially told she was Covid free, because the hospital had tested her twice. Unfortunately a Covid patient was taken into her ward, and removed quickly once she tested positive. My husband and I were in a bubble with mother and were told it was safe to visit. My husband visited in order to remove some furniture in order to clear the corridor so that she was able to use her new walker safely. Mum became ill the day after discharge and was readmitted, and then discovered to be Covid positive. My husband had unknowingly picked up Covid from her, and brought it home to me. We were using Click and Collect for shopping and going nowhere except my mother’s flat. In turn she was going nowhere at all, we got her shopping on our Click and Collect. So actually we do know where we got Covid from.

They did a similar thing in France and it did work. France is not the keenest country to take up vaccines but when they knew they'd be out of a job the health care workers took up the vaccine and I think it's about 99% vaccinated.

maddyone Of course there will be people who know where they got it. My brother-in-law was in hospital way back in March last year. Have a knee oop. He obviously got it from the hospital. No visitors allowed.

But most of us probably don't know the exact person who passed it on

There's a continuum though.

You can't go to the pub becomes you can't work becomes you can't leave your house becomes you have to pay for healthcare.

...becomes a two tier society. And they get a taste for it.

Bluecat

It's ridiculous that we don't have even the simplest restrictions here, which could save lives. Masks, for a start. It's hardly a massive sacrifice to wear one and it can reduce the risk of transmission, particularly if combined with scrupulous hygiene. Social distancing would obviously make a big difference, though the hospitality industry would presumably lobby hard against that being re-introduced. That's why we should have vaccination passports.

Scientists are warning of the danger of relying totally on vaccination to prevent a winter wave of infection, which could cost many lives and put massive pressure on the NHS. It appears that the government isn't listening and again won't act until its hand is forced, ie if the death toll rises in winter.

I can see why Singapore is going to charge the unvaccinated for medical care. There are many people here who have been unable to get the medical treatment they need, eg cancer operations, because the NHS is overburdened by Covid. My daughter was one of them and we ended up going private in desperation. People who could have the vaccine but choose to refuse, and then get very ill and need intensive hospital care, are putting pressure on the NHS that could have been avoided if they had just had the damn vaccine.

As for the rather tasteless remark about making the unvaccinated wear a yellow star - a more appropriate symbol would be a big "S" for selfish.

Well said .

Yes, I accept that many people won’t know where they contracted Covid. Particularly since there are no longer any restrictions and people are mixing freely.

The Austrians are better at following directions than we. My SiL has lived there for nearly 45years and it's like living in the 60s ! They're quite insular and parochial, very into maintaining traditions and keep themselves to themselves. Very different from UK.

Alegrias1

There's a continuum though.

You can't go to the pub becomes you can't work becomes you can't leave your house becomes you have to pay for healthcare.

...becomes a two tier society. And they get a taste for it.

Why doesn't it go : we must try and get all vaccinated: we must try to keep going to work: we must try and work together: we must stop being so bloody minded even if we end up cutting our noses off to spite our faces? 2 roads to travel ,why pick the slippery one down to chaos? Why don't we try being honourable and work as one in society to save lives? Why is everyone all " me me me me me"?

Austria is currently battling one of the highest infection rates in Europe, with a 7-day incidence per 100,000 people of 890 — compared to 385 in the UK.

However what they plan unenforceable. And wrong, in my opinion.

Well everyone isn't all "me me me me". What's the vaccination rate here, 70% of the population or something? Best ever for any program, I believe.

I'm talking about the government.

Do what we tell you or don't bother trying to take part in society. You're not like us.

Its a slippery slope. Anyway, I'm off soon to get my booster. So I'm one who you obviously class as honorable Gabrielle56.

It is a dilemma to my mind. People are free to refuse a vaccination and then possibly catch Covid, and if they either don’t test or have any symptoms, they may be unknowingly spreading the virus, which may in turn kill someone.
On the other hand, people are not free to drink and drive (quite rightly) and then get into a car and drive, which may in turn end up killing someone.
Driving whilst drunk and possibly killing someone is illegal.
Not taking a vaccine and possibly killing someone is not illegal.
It’s academic because it will never be illegal to not take the vaccination. I think most of us would not think people should be forced to take a medication against their will. Whether people should be ‘encouraged’ to take the vaccination by removal of some liberties is of course debatable.