Denied contact with grandchildren

Oh wait, perhaps I misunderstood, Nams. You say you try your best "so I can see gc." But then you say you're afraid they won't remember you, etc. So maybe you don't have contact w/ your GC at the moment and are just trying to regain it? I admit, I'm a little confused.

Sometimes people laugh out of embarrassment. Also, that is the action of someone who hates you and love and hate are opposite sides of the same coin. So my conclusion is that there are deep feelings there and I wouldn’t give up but I would give it time.

Dolcelatte...when the sting of seeing them mock us (as we felt) had died down a bit, I wondered if it was embarrassment or a rush of emotion, just as you suggested.
That’s the trouble when people draw a line in the sand, there is no way to discuss anything without lighting the touch paper and watching the melt down! (Sorry I’ve suddenly become mrs malaprop!!).

I must say that I'm shocked at the revelation that it is your Daughter who is the instigator of the problem.
Did she give you chance to apologize for upsetting her by attending the play rehearsal without informing her?
If not, I would wait until I next see the Sil and tell him that you can see that you overstepped the line by not telling them about the rehearsal and that at the time, you just didn't think but you are truly sorry for the upset it has caused between you all.
Hopefully, you might be able to see the Gc again after this heartfelt apology.
Btw, I think their reaction has been absolutely ridiculous, over the top and hurtful to you and their children, who no doubt miss their Grandparents a lot but in your position I would definitely eat humble pie, just to see my dear Gc again.
So sorry for you!

I apologised for their upset at not telling them.. now we still can’t have contact as “they don’t know what I might say to Freddie.”
SIL listened, daughter was rude and abusive.
Pretty much as expected really...

Completely unreasonable. Even if they felt you should have spoken to them about the rehearsal, its not exctly a mortal sin to have not done so, and absolutely no valid reason for their behaviour ever since. Your GC is clearly not the main focus of their thinking either!1 I feel very sorry for you Debcz not that that helps you. I think writing a brief note is a good idea, just saying that it would be good to talk things through.

I am so sorry OP. She sounds like a right spoilt cow.
You have been beyond kind and supportive and unfortunately it looks like you’ve been taken for granted.

I now like Pp suggestion of having a for sale sign up.

They are not loving parents who care about how their child feels. They're more interested in bullying you. Absolutely despicable, they dont deserve you.

I'm surprised your apology wasn't accepted and you were actually bullied....
Well let's hope in time they realize the error of their ways. Maybe they'll get fed up with the school run and miss all your other child care too.
The ball is really in their court now. Hopefully your daughter's anger will die down and they will both realize what they've walked away from.
I think you should plan some nice things to do and leave them to themselves for a while.

"SIL listened, daughter was rude and abusive.
Pretty much as expected really..."

So there's a history of D behaving this way towards you? Regardless, I'm so deeply sorry.

"... now we still can’t have contact as “they don’t know what I might say to Freddie.” "

Hmmm... SIL must be (privately) upset and embarrassed as he told you an apology would make a difference. It sounds as if D is just coming up w/ excuses to keep you away from Freddie. Maybe she has resented your closeness for a while, but didn't feel free to try to change it while she was living on your property? Still, I agree w/ PPs that her behavior is very selfish. My heart is aching for you.

Really distressing situation for you and your husband Debz, my heart goes out to you. I was wondering if you considered that the school incident had nothing to do with your daughters attitude towards you and her dad, it's merely a reason for her to justify her behaviour to anyone and everyone that will listen to her.
It was when you said about your injured foot and the trouble you had getting around for 10 weeks as well as her texting or just sending her son across the yard to your home. Apart from when she needs something , such as the wine the previous night, she doesn't come and visit , she sounds as though she has stopped seeing you as her parents, as individuals, as people of any worth except for what she has already had.
I'm not saying this to be hurtful but as the focus of all your distress is on what you think you have done wrong ('cos that's what she's said is the heinous crime ) you haven't noticed that her low opinion and poor treatment of you has been going on much longer. This is exactly what my daughter and her partner did to me, I was so upset and confused at the perceived unforgivable crime that it took me a while to realise that no, it wasn't that she was in a bad relationship, it wasn't that it was all something that could be resolved if only we could talk etc etc etc
I've come to realise that my daughter and her partner are two of a kind and both want the same things in life, I'm not part of that life, I'm no longer an asset or a means to an end.
Perhaps you need some space, seriously consider moving home which will relieve the daily pain and turmoil that you are in. If your husband is right and they are going to sell up, goodness knows who you have living so close to you. Leave any monies to your grandchildren in a trust for when they are older and try to make a good life for you and your husband. I didn't intend to write a novel sorry

Ok, I'm not sure what this means...

"I apologised for their upset at not telling them...." It SOUNDS as if you said something like, "I'm sorry you two were upset that I didn't tell you about going to the rehearsal." But perhaps Iv got that wrong?

If I'm right, they MIGHT feel as if that means you don't think you were actually wrong not to tell them, just that you're sorry they got upset over it, as if you're apologizing for their attitude rather than for your behavior. IDK. Maybe I'm looking too deeply into it.

But they also may feel you should have apologized for going at all since you didn't tell them about it. IOWs, your apology, no matter how heartfelt, might not have hit the mark w/ them.

But I know that's not what they said. They said “they don’t know what I might say to Freddie.” Thinking it over, maybe they really are afraid you might badmouth them to Freddie. If you don't mind sharing, what was your response to that concern?

Regardless, I think you're being treated very unfairly - and the GC, as well. I just hope D's heart softens over time. If Freddie asks for you - and I'm sure he will - maybe that will happen... Patience...

I see what you're saying Starlady but if the OP wasn't sorry for going to the rehearsal without telling them before hand, and IMO why should she be, why isn't being sorry that they were upset about it not enough?

This is what bothers me about so many of the incidents we read about here on GN. A P/GP does something they don't like and there's a total OTT response; withdrawal of the GC and no contact because the "apology no matter how heartfelt, might not have hit the mark with them". It's utterly ridiculous.

My heart goes out to all P's and GP's in this position. I'm so grateful looking back that we never got to know our GC or have a relationship with them and that we never had to play this game.

Your post really sums things up PamGeo. With our ES's wife we didn't realise how low her opinion of us had become and for how long.

Thank goodness we are free of it. for all who are caught in this web of this awful behviour and cruelty.

I know what you mean, Smileless!

PamGeo, what a thought-provoking post! And my heart goes out to you!

Also, IMO, you make a very good point about Deb perhaps needing "some space." Bad enough to have your (genera GP) GC kept away from you, but to live right on top of the situation must be especially painful. I know Smileless and Mr. S. came to feel better when they weren't likely to bump into ES and family. Maybe it is time for a move, Deb? Would it be feasible?

I agree, living right across the yard from them must be the most terrible strain for you, sell up if you have to, but you really need to get some distance between you

Reading all the posts has caused me to do a lot of thinking. Maybe too much!
Thank you for your support and suggestions.
My answer to the comment about what I would say to Freddie was that having worked with children who had been
Negatively affected by such actions for over 40 years I was only too aware of the damage that could be done and so would never do such a thing.
I think you are probably correct Pamgeo. They don’t see us as having any value apart from what they can use us for.
Yes. D has been abusive before when I think on it. It was when we tried to explain our borehole water and septic tank system, which they share, could not cope with the 5 gallons a minute shower heads they wanted in the conversion. So they couldn’t have them.
Star lady, I also think you have a valid point. I think she may resent the closeness between us and the gc.
Looking back over the last 6 months that they were living with us I can see we became the gc main carers to a large extent. As Pamgeo says, we didn’t notice at the time.
D and SIL were both concentrating on their careers. We were left to pick up the slack for the gc.
D was frequently away over this period SIL focused on trying to become MD.
We didn’t intend to become substitute parents but I think that’s what we became because they were in out home. We didn’t notice what was happening. It’s only now when I look back I can see it.
So maybe there is resentment and guilt on her part?
Or am I overthinking it?

It seems even more hurtful for the gc when I realise that the youngest has spent his entire life with us around and Freddie half of his.
How can they do that to them?

You could be right Debcz. It sounds like you've done all you can for now. Perhaps steering clear of them all for a while is bestw. Let them resettle as a family unit. It could be your DGS saying stuff like "Grandma lets me do it" (even if you don't!) and she feels you've been undermining her, even if you haven't.

Also,is it likely that you DD as been having a moan and is being influenced by 'advise' from friends or colleagues?

I think probably the first mistake, although at the time it probably seemed like a lovely idea, was living so close. Especially when issues like the septic tank arise, I don’t know if you share any garden, or have shared access, but all of these things are potential issues for arguments, some people can do it, but not many!

It seems they have taken advantage of you from day one, that’s okay if it’s appreciated, but in your case, it certainly hasn’t been

I should let them get on with their high flying careers, and see how was it is without a support system

But I do feel deeply sorry for you, and for little Freddie

I don't you're over thinking Debcz I think it's good that you are casting an analytical eye over past events and seeing that the current situation isn't because of anything you have done.

It doesn't help to resolve it but does stop you from being over whelmed by guilt which feeling you are to blame brings, especially as a little boy is caught in the middle of it
all.

We lived 15 doors away from our ES for 4 years and it was unbearable. It may not be possible at this time in your lives to move away but if this situation continues, and moving is an option if they don't, it is worth considering.

We moved 2.5 years ago, just an hour's drive away and it was the best thing we could have done.

Friends of mine let his daughter and husband renovate a cottage attached to their farm with use of stables and fields for her horse.
Down the line my friend and her step daughter totally fell out and stopped speaking for years.
Fine until the step daughter wanted to sell up and make a huge profit on the property. They had no official rights to the water supply, the septic tank or access to the property.
They were made to pay a lot of money from the sale of the cottage to buy these rights before they could put the cottage on the market and were lucky, as if my friend had refused to sell the rights, their cottage would have been worthless.
It just brought it to mind when you mentioned the bore hole and septic tank Debcz.

I don't you're over thinking either, Debcz. IMO, you're right on the money. Iv heard and seen this before, parents leaving their kids w/ GPs a lot and then being upset when they realize how close the GPs and GC have become - and trying to break those ties. Iv even seem it in my own family. And yes, Iv seen this happen very abruptly. They don't think of how it's hurting the kids, I imagine, b/c they play down in their minds how much it means to them (the kids). I'm sorry, but I think that's what's happening here. Hugs!

Thank you for your kind comments on my message, I'm still a bit unsure about expressing my opinions on GN so it's reassuring.

There's a lot of advice for you and your hubby Debcz, lots to talk and think over before you feel happier. If it's helps, I'd advise emotionally seperating yourselves, I don't mean disown their family, I mean imagine they are just some people you use to know and no longer get along with.
It's not a permanent mindset but it can be helpful whilst you are in such a whirlpool of emotions with thoughts wizzing around preventing a solution.
Your daughter is not the young woman who grew up with you anymore and the changes have snuck in without you noticing.
I'm sure if her work colleagues, friends and yourself were to write a description of her you would get 3 totally different pictures of the woman she now is. This does not mean she is being devious but just that different environments shape us, you just haven't fully absorbed the newer version of her.
It's not all one sided though Debcz, she hasn't noticed the woman you are either, you've invested so much into her success , her family and her life style. I'd assume you've always been a caring, nurturing, intelligent, hard working woman just from assuming things from your op. You still are, so use all of that and apply that energy into you and your hubby for a while, leave them be and let them stand on their own 2 well cushioned feet from now on.

Well said Pam.

Daughter saw us working outside this morning Pushed kids into the house ignoring us both..
THEN....
Knocks on our door. husband answers it. Happy Father’s Day she says and holds out a gift. He just stood there She puts it on the floor and walks off.
Later today ignores us both again pushing kids inside away from us
Can anyone explain this to me?