The 'Perception Filter'...

Thank you Sparkling for your lovely post. You're right it is bullying and I suppose it is a waste of time replying because my replies are in the main ignored, probably because apart from churning out the same old, same old those, who persist in trying to pull me down, have nothing of any real value to say.

You don't to have shared someone else's experience to be able to empathise with them. Thankfully the vast majority here are able to put their personal agendas, and any bitterness and anger they may feel, to one side and support others.

God bless you too.

Honestly, aspects of my thoughts about my relationship probably change over time as I gain new knowledge, new insight and new language to express myself. I wouldn't be surprised if emotions like anger and frustration have impacted what I said or for times I have seized onto possibilities and later discarded them in my journey to fully understand myself and that relationship.

I agree Starblaze Nothing is static least of all in emotions and pain, and the impact those have on how something is expressed. Also audience changes how we express ourselves too. Potential damage indeed.

An Estranged Parent said -- "This is something I have always thought about and really haven’t a clue as to the answer. I know that we all love with a different depth of capacity. How can our EC turn their backs on the very people who raised them and not give a hoot if they are dead or alive? Can they really love their spouses, their children? Are they capable of feeling love for anyone. In my case, I know with certainty that my ES loves his children, but in my heart I know he married someone who is very damaged even more so than he is and I think in order for his own survival, he in his mind pretends that all is well

When born into a moving train wreck, the motion of the tumbling seems normal- Once grown, you get catapulted out the window and onto yet another wreck headed in the opposite direction- It's different- The tumbling is slower, there's less debris in your eyes- The moving streak of kaleidoscopic color begins to take shape, you begin to see- The forest, the trees, each other's scars- Every inch damaged- They step off the train- Someone lights a fire, someone places flowers in a vase and then start a family together -

rosecarmel, you said, "When born into a moving train wreck, the motion of the tumbling seems normal- Once grown, you get catapulted out the window and onto yet another wreck headed in the opposite direction- It's different- The tumbling is slower, there's less debris in your eyes- The moving streak of kaleidoscopic color begins to take shape, you begin to see- The forest, the trees, each other's scars- Every inch damaged- They step off the train- Someone lights a fire, someone places flowers in a vase and then start a family together -"

I don't know if that's original from You or copied from elsewhere but that is one of the most profound things I've read in a long time. And oddly, "train wrecks" like butterflies were one of the examples I learned of in therapy of the real life 'emotional disaster' CEA creates in victims. Who has ever heard of a 'good' train-wreck?

And yet abusive parents and enablers will chime, "But you survived the train wreck." just like one EP said that an abused child, who wrote a book and was 'making money' from her self proclaimed 'abuse', should give part of the proceeds of her book to her mother on the grounds that, "If it wasn't for your mother you wouldn't be here to write that book."

Yet "abandoned parents" can write books and are lauded as 'heroes' to the "living bereaved" and the idea of sharing that wealth/paying restitution to their victim(s) is not only NOT 'on the table' but it's added with the, "They don't deserve 'anything'." and the cutting them out of the will.

HolyHannah, I lifted the fire and vase from a song titled Our House off Déjà Vu by Crosby, Stills & Nash- Not the Madness Our House song .. but I like that one also ..

The rest is me-

I've been working with onions this week, peeling away one layer at a time- When I got to the center of one, I remembered something-

I'd picked up a free calendar at a gas station many years ago and began to use it as a journal- With the squares being as small as they were I had to condense my daily thoughts to a sentence- Black and white cat on railroad tracks watching traffic- Spooky Mylar balloon with shredded ribbon slowly floating in a ditch- Dead Amarillo in the middle of road holding a Corona- She stacked seashells according to size on a windowsill-

In between the "things" I saw I began to record occurrences- And then began to notice a pattern of behavior- When the person I was observing saw it they got pissed off and said what are you doing? Keeping score? Holding a grudge? Then tore it up, threw it away and said don't do that anymore-

The thing is, I was too ignorant to score keep to begin with and I would have been the one to be pissed off if I was holding a grudge- But I was too naive to do either or it didn't interest me because I was immersed in what I was learning-

Much later on down the road I was told it wasn't me that people get mad at, it's what I see-

"Much later on down the road I was told it wasn't me that people get mad at, it's what I see-"

OMG Yes... Notice my ignored/not responded to comment about the BAU of the FBI. They are acknowledged/accredited with being able to analyse behavior... And yet some claim "every estrangement situation is different/unique."

I started to really see the patterns of dysfunction after age 10. And what 'adult'/ANY 'parent' wants to think that a 10 year old is their mental equal in any regard, let alone point out their glaring hypocrisy OR any of the other 'things' I saw?

What I saw was a "clean window view" of my 'family' and what they saw was ME being the "dirty laundry" that the neighbor was hanging...

Both perspectives can be acknowledged but that doesn't make each equally correct/right... 100 people can state/believe that 2+2=5... The person that says, "Nope. Still FOUR." can be out-voted to infinity by the majority... They'll still be correct at the answer of FOUR.

The difference between us as observers, according to your stories, is that you connected the dots and I did not until much later on-

I continued walking into tornados and make observations- I have to hold myself accountable for that- I didn't look at what I was doing, as in the "walking in"- I only came into view when assessing the outcome/exit/damage done-

Even when I (mind) wasn't observing, my body was keeping a recording-

Blessed are the days when I wake and for a few, beautiful, fleeting moments, the tape is erased-

I didn't understand until much later in life. So many wasted years anxious and depressed, thinking I wasn't good enough. I've achieved so much since estranging but after living a half a lifetime conditioned to believe lies about myself it's hard to shake completely. I'm still learning more.

That's part of the reason I get so cross when people say "get over it". I am glad though that I don't have the false confidence and high self-esteem needed to decide I am over it and perfect the way I am. I might not be perfect the way I am and then people around me would suffer for it and ultimately so would I.

What have you seen in other EAC that made you think they had "false confidence and high self-esteem needed to decide (they are) over it and perfect the way (they are)" Starblaze?

No one ever gets over it do they, but I think some manage to live with it more productively than others.

I didn't mention estranged children Smileless

I thought that was who you meant because you'd posted how cross you get and understandably so, when people say you should "get over it". Who were you referring too?

People who say "get over it". I don't think they have any understanding of the work that has to go into getting over it and that healing and personal growth isn't quantifiable, there are no goal posts

I know what you mean, you have to experience something to know how much work and effort goes into just trying to 'get over it'. My other pet hate is 'life's too short'.

Starblaze -- People who say, "Get over 'it'." exhibit their emotional mind-set like a flashing beacon. There are a lot of those type of statements to be had. It goes to the similar vein of, "Since you are over 'it', stop talking about it."

If you want a good breakdown on how some people can see through abusers and their language go to YT and look for The Narcissistic Resistance -- The Jig is Up. I'd post the an actual link but I am SURE some here would ask for it to be removed. Heavy Caution -- the video is profanity filled...

P.S. If EP's want to see what an angry, abused AC "sounds like" his video is a prime example. No one should say I sound 'angry' if they watch him. I agree 100% with him but 'delicate' is not his forte...

Woah, did not expect that Holyhannah has he made any more about erm, this particular subject?

Starblaze -- Not that I am aware of. He has a 'few' videos... I will continue to sift. Did you notice some key things he and I agreed on? Think 4 legs... LOL

Well I didn't expect to see the backdrop to his 'rant', a photograph consisting of the Gransnet site and a thread that was on the estrangement forum 'The brain washing behind going non contact'.

Ollie Mathews it appears, trawls sites used by EP's to talk about their experiences to further his own agenda. This is worth a look. www.redit.com .

Apparently he is accused of degrading and humiliating those he claims to help.

There are some rather unpleasant posts on his FB page including a very over weight black woman, wearing a mask and a 'T' shirt with the words 'I can't breath'. This odious and IMO rather disturbed man's comment is "no shit.....".

A very unsavoury character it seems. Picture to follow.

This is the picture clearly showing the Gransnet site and a particular thread on the estrangement forum, referred to in my post.

"There are some rather unpleasant posts on his FB page including a very over weight black woman, wearing a mask and a 'T' shirt with the words 'I can't breath'. This odious and IMO rather disturbed man's comment is "no shit....."."

Yeah, it's probably a picture of his wife...

Not sure that was the right link Smileless. I haven't watched the whole thing yet but I must agree that there were a lot of comments on that thread I found deeply upsetting and I do agree that If cutting out toxic people is a cult, fine I am in a cult lol. Although, as I've preciously said, I estranged before hearing or knowing about any of the language etc. Finding out afterwards that I was very far from alone and that there are other estranged children that understand what I went through was a huge comfort to me.

Ok -- I take back my last post... Definitely not his wife. His wife is black though so how he feels about race relations in his country is his business. Just because I don't believe in his politics etc. doesn't mean he isn't correct on others subjects.

What do you mean Starblaze it's precisely what HolyHannah referred too and she isn't saying it's the wrong link!!!

No you made that clear that you think he's correct on other subjects HolyHannah when you asked Starblaze if she noticed some of the key things you agreed with him on.

Personally I wouldn't want to be seen being in agreement with such an unpleasant character on any subject, but each to their own.

I wonder what on earth made him think he would find some 'useful material' here on GN. Not the first place I'd go too to find out about EP's experiences, especially if I lived in America.

He has issues with his own parents and uses that as a platform to publicly decry them and it seems all EP's, regardless of the reality of their situations and to make money.

www.redit.com makes for very disturbing and unpleasant reading but as I've said; each to their own.

A parent might provide what they think is a loving environment and yet a child's individual needs and desires aren't met- That's not on the child- And when that child expresses themselves regarding the environment they are met with defensiveness-

So what it boils down to is that the parent only sees what they desired to provide and did according to them and are unwilling to submit their position long enough to listen, to understand and "see"-

It takes less effort to lay your position aside, listen, understand and see than it does to discuss the matter with other family and friends to reinforce your parental position in order to make the child appear wrong -- which isn't loving at all-

Summer of spiders!!! They're everywhere! I'm about to do a Sandra Bullock/Betty White woodland chant!