Is 'No Contact' abuse?

Then saying you can see us if you do XYZ. Give us XYZ

And in SOME cases that can be done by someone to force someone else to do something. And then when the person refuses to comply, the person trying to force them goes no contact as "punishment" for not complying (or maybe to further try and force them to comply!) ! That's abuse too!

That must have been awful Shelbel. Terrible for you to see your DH's daughter treat him that way.

Emotional abuse/blackmail as you say Madgran is an example of abuse. 'It's me and the children or your family' springs to mind.

Madgram77 and Smileless I am very sorry I attributed the quote to the wrong writer.

Norah no problem. Not world shattering eh!

Smileless This is an example of a reset, to new family 'It's me and the children or your family'

Well I was almost lost for words when I read your last post Norah, but I'm sure we know one another well enough to know how unlikely that scenario would be.

'It's me and the children or your family' is not IMO as example "of a reset, to a new family", it's an example of coercive control and emotional abuse. The type of behaviour that those of us who have been unfortunate to be involved with a narcissist, is all too familiar.

You see, if you don't like your p's.i.l. and providing they are not an emotional or physical risk to your children, you don't have to see them do you. You don't have to interact with them in any way.

They are your husband's/wife's/partners parents and if you truly loved them, why on earth would you desire or expect them to estrange/cut off all contact with their parents and also, in the majority of cases, their entire birth family?

I didn't see my in laws for more than 7 years because of the way my m.i.l. treated me, but never tried to stop Mr. S. from seeing his parents or his parents from seeing our GC.

I love Mr. S. and the thought of encouraging or emotionally black mailing him into estranging his own parents never occurred to me, and even if it had, I'd never have done so.

Why? Because I love him.

No, Never would I believe a 'loss for words'

Smileless I think 'make a choice, time is limited' does happen. I've seen it in friends. I've witnessed in business. Yes, I do believe people make choices. Some choose 'me and kids'. Why wouldn't that happen with time constraints as they are?

Norah yeah I knew you'd never expect me to be lost for words.

There's a vast difference to making a choice of your own free will and being coerced/emotionally blackmailed into making it.

Smileless2012

I didn't see my in laws for more than 7 years because of the way my m.i.l. treated me, but never tried to stop Mr. S. from seeing his parents or his parents from seeing our GC.

I love Mr. S. and the thought of encouraging or emotionally black mailing him into estranging his own parents never occurred to me, and even if it had, I'd never have done so.

Why? Because I love him.

I think everyone has a limit on what they will tolerate though. Would you have done it if your MIL had started treating your children the way she had treated you? Would you have asked your husband to choose at that point?

Did your husband ever confront his mother over her treatment of you? It must have been bad if you didn’t see her for 7 years. Did he do anything about it?

I love my mother, the difficult woman that she was, but I can’t imagine wishing to actively maintain a relationship with her whilst she was treating me, and the person whom I love, with such disrespect.

As I posted yesterday @ 20.20 GG65 "providing they are not a physical or emotional risk to your children" so no, I wouldn't have allowed my m.i.l. contact with our boys had that been the case.It would though have been Mr. S.'s choice to continue to have contact.

I would of course have talked to him and advised him for his own well being to think carefully about seeing her, but I wouldn't have told him 'it's me and the children or your mother'.

He never really confronted her or attempt to do anything about it. It was her jealousy of our relationship that was an issue for me. I wasn't prepared to put up with it, so told Mr. S. I wouldn't see her.

That 7 year period of not seeing her came to an end 18 years ago when my f.i.l. died. She needed us and I was there for her. We ended up with a close and loving relationship and despite her jealous nature causing problems for her other AC, it was no longer one for me as I suppose she came to understand that was not something I would tolerate.

Jealousy is so destructive. It impacted on my relationship with my m.i.l. and our ES's wife's jealousy has destroyed the once wonderful relationship we had with our ES.

I don't think going No Contact with a parent is abuse when there is a good enough reason.
But, to go No Contact with a mother (and it is nearly always the mother)
purely because she's been a bit awkward (often labelled as Narcissistic) and there's a personality clash is most definitely an abuse of sorts.

In cases such as above, it is surely far better and less cruel to go Low Contact rather than cut someone off for good.
I don't see mothers giving up on their children to the same extent when those children get to the challenging ages. I remember being a stroppy teen and fairly selfish in my 20s) My mother dint cast me aside I've a old boot.Evethoughi was useless nightmare at the time

It also bothers me hugely that it is (in the main) adult children doing this to their parents.
Parents who have stuck by their children through thick and thin,

God only knows what people in other countries think of us and how we treat the older members of our family.
In a lot of countries family, and extended family are valued, cherished and includedinto family life well into old age (no doubt even the cantankerous old grannies),

All this No Contact/Low Contact stuff we have going on does seem to be a trend hat affects UK more than most places.

Well you did ask for our opinions.

I am at the raw angry stage, sorry if it shows.

My sister has cut my mother off for no reason we can think of.
She won't even offer an explanation.
I've seen the effect it's had on my mother and in my mind, in this instance, it IS abuse.
Abuse of the Elderly.

Smileless2012

Any explanation is better than no explanation. Our ES for example could have said that for the sake of his marriage and family he could no longer be in a relationship with us.

Is silent treatment a recognised tool of emotional abuse? If so, if non-explanation fell within that category, it too would be viewed as emotional abuse.

That said what ever language is used, our son's estrangement of us caused both physical and emotional damage. It was and remains for us abuse.

Absolutely agree with this

hugshelp

When my ES estranged me it was with, 'I need space and will be in touch in a few months, January at the latest. I will check in once in a while to let you know I'm alive, I'm angry but don't know why, if you love me you won't contact me'
I waited. Months. Years.

After a time I tried very gentle contact. It was always ignored. But I was told, 'he thinks you talk too much trivia and not about the real issues' (which he hasn't yet shared)
And then, when I tried a heartfelt letter, 'he was annoyed you didn't ask how he was doing at work, about his day etc You're trying to make him talk about his feelings'.

I've stopped trying now and hope that respecting his wishes, even though he hasn't kept to what he has said would happen is what he needs and wants. I dearly hope he is sorting himself out and finding happiness, whether I am ever allowed to share any of that or not.

I got snippets from our DD but she isn't 'allowed' to mention the vast majority of things she knows - the implication was clear if she did she would be estranged too.

He met up with his dad once, for his dad's birthday, while seeing his sister. On the proviso I wasn't allowed along and wasn't to be spoken of. His dad did mention me, just to ask when he would talk things over with me, and he got very angry, his dad later got an email which he considered to be abusive. He hasn't heard from him since. He also denied receiving my last letter to his dad, even saying my claiming to send it was me being manipulative, but told his sister he got it and discussed the contents. (he clearly knew what was in it)

I don't for a moment think he has been deliberately abusive. But if I behaved this way, with no explanation and with behaviour that seems to be very divisive to the whole family I would feel I was being very unreasonable at the least. I can only assume his pain makes him need to do so.

Every case is different. I may have failed my kids in many ways, and if given the chance to know how, will do all I can to make amends. But when I hear that abusive parenting is THE reason AC go no contact it makes my constant pain white hot and I start questioning every last thing I ever did.

We all have different situations and we all have pain, please let's not try and generalise our own situation to be everyone's truth.

Hugshelp

"I am at the raw angry stage, sorry if it shows" no need to apologise snowberry. A lot of us have been there and remember it well.

I'm sorry that your mum is going through this and for how deeply you're clearly being affected too. I noticed you'd mentioned elsewhere about mentioning the support thread to your mum. It may be useful for her to have a read through to see if she thinks it would be helpful.

I know you posted there, yesterday I think. Support is for all living with estrangement and as you're experiencing, it isn't just the person/people who have been estranged who are hurt. It's very hard to see someone you love being treated this way, especially when it's your mum.

*But, to go No Contact with a mother (and it is nearly always the mother)
purely because she's been a bit awkward (often labelled as Narcissistic) and there's a personality clash is most definitely an abuse of sorts. In cases such as above, it is surely far better and less cruel to go Low Contact rather than cut someone off for good*

Why? Why should grown adults suffer a relationship they do not enjoy with someone they do not want any contact with?

Would they be forced to do that with a spouse or childhood friend?

A parent is more obligated because they created the child. They set up this relationship. They can't opt out when it's hard because they signed up for that.

A child agreed to nothing. And owes nothing.

Smileless2012

"I am at the raw angry stage, sorry if it shows" no need to apologise snowberry. A lot of us have been there and remember it well.

I'm sorry that your mum is going through this and for how deeply you're clearly being affected too. I noticed you'd mentioned elsewhere about mentioning the support thread to your mum. It may be useful for her to have a read through to see if she thinks it would be helpful.

I know you posted there, yesterday I think. Support is for all living with estrangement and as you're experiencing, it isn't just the person/people who have been estranged who are hurt. It's very hard to see someone you love being treated this way, especially when it's your mum.

Thank you.

If the board was purely for parents estranged from their adult children I would definitely point her in this direction.
But I've noticed that there are a lot of NC adult children on here intent on disruting threads where people are seeking support.
She is too fragile to cope with any antagonising comments at the moment so im going to have anther look online and see if there's a gentler (not sure if that's the right word) support group for her.
But thanks anyway.

"No Contact“ is not abuse, it is a term used to describe when an adult child has been forced to take measures to protect themselves from an abusive parent.

Comments saying otherwise are just wrong.

Silent treatment is abuse

This is the estrangement topic, not estranged parents and people who are not estranged visit too at times so there will be lots of different situations here including those impacted indirectly by estrangement

Not getting the relationship you want isn’t abuse.

It can be extremely painful, but relationships end for a myriad of reasons.

It seems that estranged AC are held to a higher standard, both by family and society at large to justify ‘good enough reasons.”

When people divorce, it would be completely offensive for a someone to question if they REALLY had a good enough reason to do so. People generally don’t push reconciliation, saying such things as, “I’m sure they tried their best!” “You’re harming your children by denying them an intact family!” “You’ll regret it when they pass.” “I’m sure it wasn’t REALLY abuse, it was just a different time. If it WAS abuse, then why wasn’t the police/court involved?”

Yet, estranged AC get all those comments and more. And they didn’t have any say in the family they grew up in, yet adults who commit to forever and are given much more empathy and support when facing a divorce.

Estrangement is painful to everyone, imo. But for those I know, it was the only option they had left, after years of trying to repair/heal relationships.

I don’t doubt for a moment that there are some abusive people who use the threat of estrangement as a weapon and carry it out. Abusive people are everywhere. But that doesn’t make estrangement itself abusive, but it’s weaponized by abusive people.

Comments saying otherwise are just wrong. Why? Couldn't it just be that they have a different perspective and so see the situation differently? Or have a different experience and therefore hold a different viewpoint? Is it fair to invalidate someone else's feelings by telling them that they're wrong because they don't chime with our own?

Because that's what it means and we shouldn't allow abusive people to twist a words meaning.

I would say the same to anyone cutting off anyone unfairly, they haven't gone "No Contact".

It is also a term used when people end marriages with abusive people, they may be advised to be "No Contact" which means they do not respond no matter what abusive tactics are used to try and get a response from them.

There are other terms available, plenty of them. It is important when someone says they are "No Contact with a parent, an ex spouse, an adult child or an old friend that we understand they mean that they have stopped responding to protect themselves from further harm.

Because that's what it means and we shouldn't allow abusive people to twist a words meaning.

Explain what this means please. Who is "abusive"? The estranged? Or the person doing the estranging?

I already did, if someone estranged unfairly I would disagree that they have gone "No Contact".

But how would you categorise what is fair, or unfair?