Your money or your grandsons

Well here's an idea, why don't we accept that JGran may have misinterpreted what was said by her d.i.l. and her d.i.l.'s friends, rather than assume that she's making the whole thing up in order to garner sympathy.

I don't doubt for one moment that if it were her EA son who was posting here or his wife, they'd believed by the nay sayer's on here because for some it's always the EP/EGP who is at fault.

Can you imagine the shock, horror and outrage if a poster ever told an EAC they were making things up about their abusive childhoods to garner sympathy, or had misinterpreted how they were treated?

Honestly, some of the responses to EP's/EGP's on GN beggar belief.

Smileless, I can see how someone being told they are heading for eternal destruction (if those are the words used) or eternal death (again, if those were the words used) could be interpreted as 'you are going to hell' by someone who understood that concept better. It's really just a terminology issue based on what terms are understood in what belief systems. Based on what i have experienced, a JW would feel it was the right thing to warn someone that they are on that path. So yes, OP might feel she was told she was going to hell, but how most of us would interpret that, that scenario could not have happened with a JW. Most churches believe in evangelism and saving people do they not? In any case, that is a side issue. In the situation with the house, it doesn't sound like JGran is being at all unreasonable.

Did your son have a written contact with all benefits outlined JGran? As he's family you might not have felt the need, and maybe that is why you are where you are now with this. The bottom line is that you get to do whatever you want with your properties and assets.

Oh, and no interpretation. Her exact words several times: "You are going to Hell!" As to her beliefs?? As I said...I really don't know much about what they do or don't believe.

Unless you know all JW's OceanMama I cannot see how you can possibly know that what JGran has described could not have have happened.

Whether intentional or not, you are calling her a liar.

Smileless2012

How on earth do you know that that never happened MrsWarren? It's perfectly reasonable that a JW would tell a Catholic they wanted to hurt and upset that they'll go to hell, because they know a Catholic does believe there's a hell.

For goodness sake stop being so judgemental, claiming you know something that you couldn't possibly know so implying that everything JGran is telling us hasn't actually happened.

Why is it so unpalatable for some to accept that there are some really nasty AC out there, when clearly there are?

Thank you OceanMama as you say, JGran could have interpreted 'eternal destruction' as 'hell'. Either way, a very nasty thing to say.

Pointing out that Jehova’s witnesses don’t believe in hell and therefore wouldn’t have used these words isn’t nasty, it’s the truth.

I haven’t insinuated anything beyond that.

Sorry, but I don’t know why this has bothered you so much.

JGran thank you for the clarification.

JGran

MrsWarren and OceanMama: I'm not sure why her religious beliefs are your focus and honestly what they do or don't believe as a group is not important to me. I can only say that it is what she and her friends have stated and what little I've been told in the past over the dinner table with them. As to what the larger group believes or follows...no idea and not really very important to the issue. As to me making it up??? Really??? Why??? I'm sorry if this is your religion and their statements don't make sense to you as they are not following what you know, I can only state what was stated. As to its validity, that would be a discussion you could have with her and her friends. I really know almost nothing about the religion and have stayed as far away from the topic as possible. I just make sure to stay away from topics that I know are taboo like birthdays and Christmas.

JGran, I think the reason it got picked up is because it's such a fundamental teaching and difference of the JWs that it really stands out and made me raise my eyebrows. I believe they have a study book that clearly explains what they believe around 'hell' if you're curious. Anyway, probably best to move on as I did in my previous post. :-) I am sure she said something to you along the lines of you're heading the wrong way.

Smileless2012

Unless you know all JW's OceanMama I cannot see how you can possibly know that what JGran has described could not have have happened.

Whether intentional or not, you are calling her a liar.

No I'm not, I'm simply saying that she's interpreted what was said as meaning hell. Or her DIL used 'hell' as she knew it, not as OP knew it.

I'm the last person to always say the EP is wrong. I have stated in many past posts that the AC is just as capable as a parent of being the one in the wrong, or that there is a contribution on both sides. I never make assumptions about who is at fault.

No it isn't the truth in JGran's case MrsWarren and that is why it bothers me so much. She has now posted that those are the exact words her d.i.l. used.

I'm sick and tired of EP's and EGP's posts about their personal experiences of estrangement being questioned to the extent that they are portrayed as liars.

What was again the big fight that changed everything? That piece of info is key

Smileless2012

No it isn't the truth in JGran's case MrsWarren and that is why it bothers me so much. She has now posted that those are the exact words her d.i.l. used.

I'm sick and tired of EP's and EGP's posts about their personal experiences of estrangement being questioned to the extent that they are portrayed as liars.

You have often said that EAC judge all EP’s by their own experiences. But I feel this is exactly what you are doing here.

I didn’t question JGran’s personal experience of estrangement.

I questioned what her DIL said to her because a Jehova’s witness does not believe in hell and wouldn’t tell anyone they are going to hell because to them it doesn’t exist.

So, if I see something that is glaringly inconsistent, or doesn’t make sense, should I say nothing?

You haven't "simply (said) that she's interpreted what was said as meaning hell" OceanMama. You posted today at 12.12 "This detail does come across as trying to garner sympathy by creating a situation that couldn't have happened".

If you tell someone they are maybe "trying to garner sympathy by creating a situation that couldn't have happened", when they have said it did happen, you are saying that they are lying.

Smileless2012, you have come at me very aggressively, accusing me of being nasty, judgemental, saying that I am calling the OP a liar. I really don’t appreciate it.

Given that my DIL has twice married outside of her beliefs which are also not approved. Even her mother refused to go to the wedding. I find it actually funny that someone would rather accuse me of misinterpreting, or that she didn't use those words, or that I'm somehow using it for sympathy...of course I still don't know how that would garner any as telling me that I'm going to Hell will only mean something to me when I get to the pearly gates. I know in my soul I am not as I have always been a good person, so her belief is her training, not mine.

No, you can say something doesn't make sense and/or in your opinion is "glaringly inconsistent", but you didn't say either of those MrsWarren, you said "that never happened".

If someone tells you something has occurred and you weren't there to witness the event, by telling them it never happened, you are in effect calling them a liar.

Well IMO your posts speak for themselves MrsWarren.

I have accused you of being judgemental because I think you are but I have not accused you of being nasty.

Smileless2012

You haven't "simply (said) that she's interpreted what was said as meaning hell" OceanMama. You posted today at 12.12 "This detail does come across as trying to garner sympathy by creating a situation that couldn't have happened".

If you tell someone they are maybe "trying to garner sympathy by creating a situation that couldn't have happened", when they have said it did happen, you are saying that they are lying.

Feel free to interpret it how you want. It did come across that way in my reading, but I also stated that I thought it was a misinterpretation. I'm sure something was said. Peace out.

Smileless2012

I have accused you of being judgemental because I think you are but I have not accused you of being nasty.

You said it was a “nasty thing to say”.

So (using the same logic you applied when you came to the conclusion that I called JGran a liar) you have insinuated that I am nasty.

Jgran, from what I've seen you're right and marrying someone who is not a fellow believer is very uncommon. As you said, you know you're a good person and sometimes we just have to hold onto that no matter what others believe about us.

Soooooo..... back on topic here.

My big goal here was to figure out if there may be a way to salvage my relationship. I was really hoping for some ideas and have a few here from a few individuals. Thank you!

As to the house, not selling it in the near future anyway. I also bought a condo that I've been setting aside the income from for my eldest grandson to use for college. That does not change and he is left the property when he turns 25. He also has the option of living there when he starts college and can then opt to rent the second bedroom for college money. His mother did hate that I left this option open as she does not want him to consider moving out of their home.

The house they live in will now go to my youngest grandson. Both boys will be given a leg up in life that I never had.

I grew up with an elder sister in a one bedroom house and a single mom until I was 8. Worked very hard all my life so far and now have a very comfortable estate to do as I will with it.

I recognized several years ago that my son does not have a good relationship with money. Neither does his wife. That is when I changed to my baby sister as Trustee. She has always been very good with money and is extremely organized. She is in full agreement with this responsibility.

The only time I ever stood up to both of the kids, happened long before the estrangement. I babysat while they went to a wedding. When they came home they were VERY drunk. In fact, she was ill almost the moment she walked in the house. I did not want to leave while they were so drunk and since they didn't get in until wee hours in the morning, I suggested that I stay a few hours before going home so that my son could focus on holding his wife's hair. This was not taken very poorly (as far as I can tell) as she decided the next day that she would no longer drink. She recognizes that she is not good at recognizing where her limit is. My son still drinks, but not excessively to my knowledge. Although, he has in the past. Her not drinking has had a positive influence on him.

OceanMama

You are mistaken MrsWarren. In my post today at 12.16 I said to OceanMama what JGran's d.i.l. and friends had said to her was a "nasty thing to say"; it was not too or about you.

You ask how you can salvage this relationship JGran. I'm sorry to say from what you've told us that the only way you can do so is to totally capitulate and give your ES exactly what he wants.

If you do, whose to say this wont happen again in the future?

There are of course parents who want a relationship with there AC and GC at whatever the cost. There's no right or wrong; you need to do what you believe is in your best interests.

We've been estranged from our youngest son and only GC for nearly 8 years so I do understand how painful this is for you.
We were never given an ultimatum but if we had been, I wouldn't have given in to emotional blackmail regardless of how much I loved them and still do.

Take some time, perhaps think about counselling before making a final decision. In the meantime take care of yourself.

Jgran

I'd suggest just ignoring the strong anti EAC rhetoric across many threads at the moment and not let it influence you away from all thoughts and advice.

I'm sorry but I am struggling to keep up with everything you are saying so I have nothing to add really. Perhaps I'll try and read through it all again another time.

Hope things work out between you and your son.

Can you imagine the shock, horror and outrage if a poster ever told an EAC they were making things up about their abusive childhoods to garner sympathy, or had misinterpreted how they were treated?

Why does every thread need to be turned into us v them?

EPs v EAC.

It’s not helpful. It derails threads. It causes divides and forces the new poster to chose a “side”.