Having a weak moment

Is that my post Armadillo that you don't understand what I mean? Sorry I don't know how else to express it.

What I'm saying is I don't think that being sent a card on your birthday for example which is once a year is harassment or stalking. However, the constant sending of anything would be.

How can we then approach our estranged loved ones to communicate or start a reconciliation process if our attempts are seen as stalking, or harassment?
Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

Bridie22 Exactly!

That's the problem Bridie and and as you say "damned if you do and damned if you don't".

I understand that those who have taken the decision to estrange may well see this differently. The thing is they've made a decision over which we, who have been estranged, have no say or control.

It's easier said than done to not even try to communicate, to just walk away and leave them alone because they don't want you in their lives anymore.

Sorry, posted too soon - I think Smileless makes a good point though, it's the repetition in the face of rejection that causes the problem.

And of course the belief that people are being 'hoovered' by 'narcissistic parents'. Some undoubtedly are, but not half as many as some of the AC would like to believe.

My father used to say "if they don't want you, they don't want you - don't give them your dignity as well". So, that's the premise I follow.

My AC knows I'm here if he should ever change his mind, in the meantime I will move on with my life whilst he moves on with his. Whether I like it or not it's what's been chosen.

I understand your reasoning smileless, but before political correctness arrived, a dam good row could clear the air of any misunderstandings on either side, now it is so difficult to know what to do.

I agree Nell there does tend to be this assumption that all EP's are abusive and/or narcissistic which simply isn't the case.

What makes it so awful for some EP's is when there wasn't even a row Bridie. Quite literally, one minute everything appears perfectly normal and then wham; you're persona non grata.

its sad isn't smileless, I shall as NellG says, hold onto my dignity and carry on, just these weak moments pop up .

I know, I had one this morning because of a song that came on, right in the middle of my exercise routine too so I had to stop to grab a tissue.

Bridie22 They do don't they? Doesn't make us weak though, just human. And it proves we still love and care for them.

I do agree about the bloody good row though, it came as such a shock to me to realise that the door had been shut without so much as a raised voice. To lose so much so quietly was devastating. I honestly felt like a broken woman for a long time. I'd always believed everything could be solved by communicating.

Smileless

I could have written your second paragraph word for word Nell.

Me too NellG, why is it so difficult to just say what has caused the problem?, its cruel and punishing this estrangement, especially when its people who you love and thought you were close to are involved.

Bridie, I think ( in my case anyway) that there wasn't really a huge problem other than his partner felt very threatened by me and he couldn't have both. It didn't matter how hard I tried to get on with her, she didn't want a relationship with me/us. I think his life just became easier to bear if I wasn't in it - it was more peaceful, if I'm not involved she doesn't get upset.

I don't think he'll ever make amends now - we were very close and there was a lot of love and care between us before. He knows how much he hurt me (I became very ill because of it) and I don't believe he'll ever be able to face the responsibility of how much damage it's caused. I think it's easier for him to bury his head and paint me as the bad guy. I allow him to because I want him to be happy. Though in all honesty I think it's a faux happiness that can't endure.

He wont talk, or communicate about it because he doesn't want to face the truth of what actually happened. He's even told me he can't talk to me because I'll "change his mind". His partner says it's because I'm manipulative, I say it's because I tell the truth.

How do these people think that how they behave is love?

I'm so sorry you're going through all this too - there are far too many of us.

Bridie, I think when most estranged parents really take an honest look at what happened, they will find that their adult children did tell them why...often many times. But adult children’s complaints against their parents are often dismissed as being “immature” or “cruel” or “ungrateful”. I can’t count how many times my husband and I explained to my PIL what our problems were with their behavior, and yet they still say they are baffled by the estrangement.

I think rather than sending cards or flowers, EP can begin the reconciliation process by taking a hard look at their own actions that could have contributed to the estrangement. Stop dismissing your ACs complaints and really start hearing them. Seek therapy and be honest to help you get to the bottom of it. Then, if you discover that the estrangement was partly your fault, issue a sincere apology. Not “I’m sorry you feel that way” or “I’m sorry for anything I may have done”. A real apology states exactly what you did, expresses regret, and a promise to do better going forward”.

Now some people will look at their situation and find they were completely innocent of any wrongdoing, and for those situations, there’s probably nothing you can do but let go, or wait for your EAC to change their minds.

It didn't matter how hard I tried to get on with her, she didn't want a relationship with me/us

Sadly, that can be the case for some NellG

MamaBear20 - I only wish they had explained to me. I was never told what I'd done wrong even when I asked outright and begged to know, I turned over every stone of everything I'd ever done and volunteered it as a potential sticking point - nothing, except for silence and the use of a blatant lie that was so abhorrent it was better for us all to stop poking at the wound.

I know it's not the same for every one, and I'm not above being told I've done wrong. I understand that some parents think they are and I believe that's wrong of them.

I did what you suggest in your last paragraph, I let go. The peace of mind takes a little longer. I'm truly sorry your PIL weren't able to hear you and work on improving the relationship with you - I'd have jumped at the chance in my own case.

Madgran - Sometimes I think I tried too hard for too long and my submission fed the contempt.

That was the same for me Nell although to begin with I really believed her when she said she loved me; I loved her too but she didn't want to 'share' our son, her H with anyone else.

The day they got engaged when we were out drinking champagne with her parents and them of course to celebrate, she looked me in the eye and said "I have only child syndrome; I don't share".

Like you son, ours would never talk about it because I think he can't or wont face up to what he's done, not just to us but his grandmothers and extended family. The last time I tried to speak to him which must be 6 years ago, he said "we mustn't do this, it causes too much trouble". Says it all really.

A lot of estrangements are due to a third party; husband, wife, partner.

Sometimes I think I tried too hard for too long and my submission fed the contempt

Yes that resonates! There comes a point where expecting nothing also means one cannot be disappointed when nothing comes!

"Sometimes I think I tried too hard for too long and my submission fed the contempt" that's one of the saddest things I've ever seen from an EP Nellx

Smileless The deliberate cruelty of her saying that to you is gut wrenching. The feeling of being played by these people is horrific, it's like being forced to watch a train slowly crashing, knowing there's nothing you can do to stop it. Being forced to relinquish someone that you love to such monstrous people is, well, you know exactly how and what it is. I don't submit any more btw, a lifetime of it has taught me it's a hiding to nowhere and help no one. But thank you for the flowers. x

Madgran, totally, just wish it hadn't taken so much to realise it! Haha - thank you for the flowers, this is a good place to visit. x

I did respond with "well you'll have to learn" but of course had no idea that she really meant it and we'd lose our son and only GC Nell.

The analogy of watching a train crash in slow motion is spot on.

Mamabear2o,
I can 100% assure you that I have taken a very honest look at myself, and there is no way on this earth would I have dismissed any problem my child had with me, I would have discussed and taken any action to rectify any hurt I had accidentally caused them,
However as much as you seem to assume this i a problem I have caused... you are in this instance wrong.