Just to see the children

Smileless2012

The courts have the higher authority Summerlove just as they do when parents who split up and there are arguments about who the children will reside with, when one parent is being denied access by the other etc.

It has nothing to do with the fitness of the parents Bibbity this about whether or not it's in the best interests of the children to continue their relationship with their GP's.

No DiamondLily in the context of this discussion, children don't have some rights, they're the only ones with rights in accordance with the law.

If you feel that "the importance of grand parents is being overstated here" AmberSpyglass then it's the law you have an issue with. "No one except the parents gets to dictate who they have in their lives"; the law says otherwise.

Of course it's about fit parents. If a parent is fit then they are capable of deciding what is best for THEIR children.

It could be rare to hear of grandparents hurting their grandchildren because the parents have stopped contact with them.

It's no good shouting at me Bibbity, it's the law and I am not responsible for the law.

Smileless you shouldn't make such claims. There are vulnerable grandparents here who could easily put themselves through a stressful expensive court process only to find that there will never be a relationship between them and the grandchildren.

Instead we must acknowledge that the best way to see the grandchildren is to find a way to keep things positive with their parents.

I'm not making claims VS I'm simply clarifying the law as it stands. FGS what on earth makes you think that an EGP, vulnerable or otherwise would "put themselves through a stressful expensive court process" based on what I have posted here. If it wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable.

Solicitors advise their clients on such matters. Advise whether or not they think they have any chance of success, point out the potential pit falls and ask them to think carefully before they make their final decision.

We're all aware "that the best way to see the grandchildren is to find a way to keep things positive with their parents" but as we all know, that isn't always possible is it.

So many people desperate to see their GCs and assuring us that they have done nothing wrong. Are they being completely honest? There must be a reason why the generations are estranged. Estrangement doesn't happen without a reason.

You are wrong Bibbity to some extent because if Childrens services are involved with the parent then it puts a different slant on things particularly if the childrens' services have got an order on the children. It is 50/50 about who makes decisions about the children. It is not the right of the childrens' services
to say whether or not a GP can have access rights that is still up to the court and proof of the GP having a good moral record and without any serious convictions then they stand a good chance within in the courts.

Even if there is not abuse. Competent parents should get final say.

Same as Pp. I decided long ago if MIL went or court she wasn't going to have the children. Regardless of outcome.
That's how I found out about the case law.

Estrangement can happen without the reason being explained...despite request for explanation.

VS you are right there are vulnerable grand-parents here I should know I am one of them. I have already had my first meeting in regard of the courts and nothing would be more stressful to me than not putting up any sort of a fight to see my GC. Is my money any use sitting in the bank and staying there until I die when I can use it to pave the way to having the benefit of having my GC in my life.

Seeing the GC is always going to be better if there is a good relationship with the parent, as many G.Ps know that is not always the case.

Smileless2012

It's no good shouting at me Bibbity, it's the law and I am not responsible for the law.

Shout? ??

When we are arguing that going to court causes harm to children, this is something the courts recognise, which is why leave is not often granted. Any good solicitor will explain to the grandparents that avenue is a last resort and not a very successful one. Mere allegations of abuse by the parent will be enough in most cases to have the case stopped or slowed significantly. By the time the process has gone on for even just a year, then it's unlikely that the grandparent can prove a significant relationship with the grandchildren in a final hearing. Even parents are unsuccessful in court on many occasions if abuse is alleged.

What I see and understand, Baring in mind that I wasn't taken to court, my mother was offered to see her grandchildren and said no and my children have never once asked to see her... Is well, the courts will always put children's welfare first. They cannot simply give rights to other family members or children may not be safe.

If children aren't safe with their parents then there are many organisations grandparents can approach for support. Visitation would not help there.

It's just the truth

3nanny6 from what I remember, your situation is one of the ones where you state that the parents are unfit. In your case I would hope you would do everything in your power to protect your grandchildren. Yet you must know, mere visitation would not achieve that and abusive parents may punish children for that.

I know how possible this is because my father was awarded visitation and I was punished every time I returned home from it.

My friend approached many organisations, who did precisely nothing.
She has just been here, telling me the latest in her oldest granddaughters life. .
Beaten up by her boyfriend (who is out on licence from prison) animal cruelty, a crack addiction.
All the things my friend was hoping wouldn't happen when she was stopped from seeing the girls years ago.
The strangest thing?
Whenever the latest crisis happens, my friend is the first person that's called to take her grandaughter in.

When people post in upper case Bibbity it is seen as shouting.

Again, what does abuse have to do with it VS. A GP with a history of abusive behaviour is hardly likely to go to court and if an AC and/or their partner is prepared to make a false allegation of abuse against the GP, that only serves to show just how malicious, cruel and vindictive they can be.

That's very sad MissA. So your friend was stopped from seeing her GC but is the go to person when things go wrong.

Because abuse is why these safeguarding practices are in place.

Yes, and she always has been, despite the police telling her years ago not to harass her son and his partner.
(She had pointed out to the school that her son could barely stand as he was so drunk when picking the girls up from school)
My friend is the only person in the whole family without so much as a parking ticket.

In type it's quite common to use caps to highlight a word or short phrase, not commonly seen as shouting unless it's in whole sentences

just as well for her troubled GD that your friend doesn't regard being asked to step in when things go wrong as being harassed herself MissA.

As I've just posted a GP with a history of abusive behaviour is unlikely to go to court. The first thing that has to be proved is there has been a consistent, close and meaningful relationship with the the GC.

That's extremely unlikely if the parent knows the GP is abusive due to their own child hood experiences. Who would allow that relationship to develop under those circumstances?

Sweep123

I keep reading how things must remain as they are to ensure a grandchild’s safety. Does that mean all children should be removed from their parents to ensure the child’s safety as the incidents of parents harming their children are well known.
I have never heard of grandparents harming their grandchildren.

Abusive parents don’t magically change once they’re grandparents.

Sweep123

All this talk of going to court would be unnecessary if grandparents had an automatic right to see their grandchildren as in the EU and many other countries.
I’m sure the EU would have given this great consideration before bringing it about. Then grandchildren could not be used as a tool in some vendetta against grandparents.

How would the grandparents access this? Police?

Children are rarely used as a vendetta. It’s often simply the parents of the children want no contact. It’s not done to cause hurt.

Children are not pawns. Pawns are the lowest pieces of chess. It’s insulting to children to be referred to as pawns

Smileless2012

The courts have the higher authority Summerlove just as they do when parents who split up and there are arguments about who the children will reside with, when one parent is being denied access by the other etc.

It has nothing to do with the fitness of the parents Bibbity this about whether or not it's in the best interests of the children to continue their relationship with their GP's.

No DiamondLily in the context of this discussion, children don't have some rights, they're the only ones with rights in accordance with the law.

If you feel that "the importance of grand parents is being overstated here" AmberSpyglass then it's the law you have an issue with. "No one except the parents gets to dictate who they have in their lives"; the law says otherwise.

And how do cases end up at court?

One group trying to impart their will on another. It might be under the pretense of childrens rights, but the children are not the ones starting the court proceedings

Grandparents taking parents to court.

Parental custody is a completely different can of worms

MissAyour friends story is very common. These poor children have been let down badly by the “organisations ”who should have been supporting them and until someone is taken to court and accused of malpractice …and that will happen one day….it will continue and innocent children will be deprived of a normal relationship with their family. Aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents who would have looked after their welfare.

Sweep
www.courthousenews.com/grandparent-rights-vindicated-by-top-eu-court/amp/

Grandparents still have to go to court. It’s simply that they now have the right to do so.