Daughter Detox ~ Recovering from an Unloving Mother

I was thinking about what you said Smileless, about not forgiving. I realized that maybe the reason I don't dwell on if I should forgive is because I don't feel bitterness, anger or resentment.

Now you gave me something to think about.

Night sky, I’ve no problem with you disagreeing with me but calling my comment about men I know very well ‘ridiculous’ was rude and unnecessary.
I did not say no men who went to BS send their sons. I said nine if the men I know did so.
The men I’m talking about are emotionally intelligent and honest enough to say that they continue to struggle with intimacy.
I’m not in the habit of posting untruths. This is my experience. Different than yours but no less worth while.

imaround.

imaround

I was thinking about what you said Smileless, about not forgiving. I realized that maybe the reason I don't dwell on if I should forgive is because I don't feel bitterness, anger or resentment.

Now you gave me something to think about.

I don't have any either for me, only really when my children tell me something they haven't told me before

I just feel sorry for her

I feel sorry for anyone who has to bully another to feel better about themselves... it must be like having an addiction. The fix never lasts and it's back to being miserable

Reite, we all acknowledge abuse is wrong, to abuse your own child is the worst. I have children, you do all you can to give them a secure happy life, to ensure they are safe and have a good start and foundation. Why anyone would want to forgive and have a relationship with their tormentor, their own parent, I don't understand, is it really necessary to forgive in such circumstances? To have a good life and if you are lucky enough to have your own family, they are the future they come first, you couldn't let your children have an abuser round them. That's the point I was making. the abused is not at fault.

No the abused are definitely not at fault and I really admire those who have found the strength to heal from abuse and move from victim to survivor

Some are lost to the cycle

We all have our own path Allsorts. I was able to heal enough to have contact with my mother now, but I do not force my children to have contact with her. It works for some people, doesnt for others. Neither is right or wrong.

Once they heal on their terms, they can decide what they want to do. My relationship with her is mine alone right now and always will be.

It is also not necessary to forgive in order to heal.

Ugh. I typed a post and then got an error message.

Allsorts, everyone has their own path. I was able to heal enough that I am now helping to take care of my mom. Forgiveness is not necessary to heal.

I do not force my children to have a relationship with her. When they heal, they can decide to forgive her or not. My relationship with my mother is mine alone.

Ok, it did go through. I have reported my second post so they can delete it since I said it better the first time.

Allsorts

Reite, we all acknowledge abuse is wrong, to abuse your own child is the worst. I have children, you do all you can to give them a secure happy life, to ensure they are safe and have a good start and foundation. Why anyone would want to forgive and have a relationship with their tormentor, their own parent, I don't understand, is it really necessary to forgive in such circumstances? To have a good life and if you are lucky enough to have your own family, they are the future they come first, you couldn't let your children have an abuser round them. That's the point I was making. the abused is not at fault.

i'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here, or even if your post is directed at me?
i have not been advocating forgiveness, although i did comment on the fact that the discussion had reached that topic.
perhaps you could clarify which of my posts (if any) you are referring to, and what you are actually asking me.or disagreeing with.

Smileless2012

Really riete have the things you've referred too in your post @ 16.23 on this thread, because TBH I haven't seen any. I really don't think that someone posting of an experience they found positive, or friends and family did that someone else didn't, is suggesting that theirs is more or equally relevant.

Or suggesting that the feelings of those whose experience was vastly different are sweeping aside your feelings.

We are all aware that this is a support thread, and as you'll have seen from the support thread for anyone whose life has been affected by estrangement, as I'm sure you posted there, a variety of experiences, both good and bad are shared.

There certainly hasn't been any unpleasantness on this thread thank goodness, that was witnessed else where and not that long ago.

You asked earlier for someone to start the ball rolling on the issue of forgiveness which I have done. Maybe you've missed it, it comes after yours and I would be interested on your own thoughts on the subject.

For me, I think we do have to try to find a way of living with the events of our past and TBF that is what those who contribute to the estrangement forum do appear to be doing.

That doesn't mean that the significance of those events and the pain they caused ever disappear. For some it does diminish over time but even when that happens, it never goes away completely.

No, I couldn't have sent our boys to BS either Allsorts. It's very sad that someone looking back on their own experience feels they were dumped and hated it.

Do you know if he ever talked to his parents about it and whether or not being sent to BS had a detrimental affect on his relationship with his parents?

i'm trying to make sense of what you've said here, but i can't. was there a purpose?
i wonder if introducing "the support thread for anyone whose life has been affected by estrangement" confused what you were saying?

regardless, i absolutely don't think it's for you to decide how i feel. or if i feel that my feelings were swept aside.

and no, i didn't miss your post about forgiveness. thank you for "starting the ball rolling". i did find your definition of the term forgiveness a bit weird, but when i've made some sense of it i may be able to respond to you.

It's behind him and he's learnt from it. He will be never have a good relationship with his parents, their values are too different. He purposely put that away with diversionary tactics as it wasn't going to define him and eventually he was ok with it. He enjoys life, it didn't make him a victim, he often says he looks at families out together, having each other's backs and says that would have been good.
I lost my lovely mom young. Thats a hard one.

Yes riete there was a purpose to my post you've quoted, it was in response to the post you made on Monday @ 16.23. If you take a look at that post, the purpose of mine should be clear but in case it isn't, I'll explain.

You'd said that there were posters on this thread suggesting their positive experience (of BS?) or the experience of family and friends was more or equally relevant to the experience of others. You also suggested that those whose experience was vastly different, was sweeping aside the feelings of others. I haven't seen that on this thread.

You also reminded us that this is a support thread so I pointed out that experiences both good and bad are shared on the other support thread. When that happens there, it isn't done to sweep aside the feelings of others, so I don't understand why you feel that is the case, when it happens here. That being said is not to invalidate your feelings or the feelings of anyone else.

You appeared to be suggesting that this thread is not being treated as a support thread should be. I disagree, and referred to the relatively recent unpleasantness on the estrangement support thread which was without a doubt totally inappropriate.

Not sure why you found my definition of forgiveness weird. You can google the psychological definition for yourself if you want to make some sense of it. There's no need for you to respond further on the subject, I wasn't sure that you'd seen my post but you obviously have.

This is a support thread, so primarily comments should be supportive towards those who have ACEs and what those are.

Conversation should not be shifted towards those who had positive experience of what someone else found negative, as it leads to upset and confusion for the person who is seeking support when they feel they don't have a voice.

I'm just mentioning this in the hope that it brings some awareness to how others can be impacted by shifting from support to our own positive personal or experience or from what we have heard from others where it isn't actualy relevant to the person seeking support.

In conversation, if you find yourself feeling confused, unsupported and as if another is putting their own needs or voice before yours, it's best to take a break from them.

I agree that primarily comments should be supportive and I think they have been.

Posters talking about positive experiences doesn't shift the purpose of the thread and shouldn't make those looking for support feel they don't have a voice.

Threads meander even those that are essentially for support and there's certainly been no deliberate attempt to make anyone on this thread feel uncomfortable.

What's shared isn't necessarily going to be relevant to everyone, and may only be relevant to the person who is sharing it which is what happens on an open forum.

Smileless2012

I agree that primarily comments should be supportive and I think they have been.

Posters talking about positive experiences doesn't shift the purpose of the thread and shouldn't make those looking for support feel they don't have a voice.

Threads meander even those that are essentially for support and there's certainly been no deliberate attempt to make anyone on this thread feel uncomfortable.

What's shared isn't necessarily going to be relevant to everyone, and may only be relevant to the person who is sharing it which is what happens on an open forum.

Smileless All that you posted is true, no need for only negative experiences. Good Grief.

It is a shame you think that way Smileless and Normandygirl and if you can't show understanding when told, that you might mistakenly harm others coming to a thread like this seeking support by placing your opinions over someone elses pain when it is explained to you...

Then that is your choice.

Norah sorry, getting my names mixed up

Thank you Norah.

It isn't a lack of understanding having been told vs, I don't agree with you. No one is placing their opinion over someone else's pain and I think it's wrong to suggest that anyone on this thread has done so.

That in itself may make people feel that they can't join in the discussion and that they are being deprived of their voice.

Only if their opinion is more important to them than a person seeking support or understanding to support others better Smileless

It might be relevant to a different thread or topic though which could be an interesting seperate discussion if inspired to do so

Silencing debate is not supportive. Posting experiences that helped is not silencing

This is a support thread Iam64

It is not a debate thread but I am sure a seperate thread could fulfill that need if it exists

Support includes discussion, talking about experiences

I'm sorry you aren't able to understand what I am trying to explain to you

Iam64

Support includes discussion, talking about experiences

Quite!

Silencing discussion is counter-productive.