Harry: "I want my Father back. I want my brother back"

Well, The Duke of York must be pleased. It's taken all the attention off him and his behaviour.

wicklowwinnie

Well, The Duke of York must be pleased. It's taken all the attention off him and his behaviour.

Media circus just keeps rolling and the money keeps coming in

VioletSky

Josie

Plenty of people write books onward

There have been lots of books about mothers like mine for example that I've found very helpful.

Tbh with you, if I had the ability to write a book about my experiences and it might help people I might consider it

Also the price of things these days, a few extra quid would soothe a few of those mother wounds

Lol I'm joking

It's not for me and you run the risk of people absolutely tearing you down for no reason just saying " I'm estranged" which I wouldn't want to be a legacy I handed to my children...

But Harry comes from a long line of people who wrote books and did dodgy interviews so it's normal for him

As I said earlier, these things need unravelling from beginning to end.
Doing it from end to beginning helps no one.

As an example, if any adult says to another adult "you were the worst [insert family member here] and I don't want a relationship with you". Focusing on that and how upset and angry that makes the estrangee instead of what happened to reach that point, will help absolutely noone.

To unravel this, it starts in Harry's childhood, not his behaviour now

True many people write books...and I'm sure many of us can honestly say we would love to have written a book. It's not writing the book that I' object to. It's not even because it's Harry. I have never read a book by his father either (or any other Royal)

As I've already said, it is the nature of some of the revelations that really bothered me, rather than writing the book itself.

I see what you mean VS about it seeming normal to Harry to write a book. If only he had stuck to his medical information and his kids and all the things he has achieved or places he has visited, talked about the layout of his home and about things in his new life, I think all would have been ok. I do think it was a huge mistake to refer to the Taliban (at all)

And yes I see that it ideally would be good to unravel his story at the beginning. If he has begun to do that perhaps it has not worked for him? It is all of our responsibility to unravel our own story.

I recently overheard someone tell her adult son he had ruined her life and was stunned to see that they spent the entire Christmas together. It seems so unfair because I would never say anything nasty to my son (I might have thought it but I would never say it)- yet I have had to distance to protect myself.

Whenever anyone puts themselves in the public eye by writing a book they can expect to be discussed. I think in some ways good has come of it. Not for the RF, but I did read that some illegal shamans were arrested. Good. Those people have done much harm to my family and to my son.

Joseanne, thanks for putting your experience here. You have nothing to apologise for.

Onward I know I keep saying it but...

I think the book needs to actually be read and the interviews actually watched

I don't agree with forming opinions of people we don't actually get to know

I don't like gossip

Everyone deserves a fair chance even when we have had a life that involved giving others more chances than they deserved

I see your point VS but I'm probably not going to read the whole book (or any other book by the RF) I am anti gossip too, but how can it be gossip when I have read those bits I mentioned.

I want to add here that I would be upset with anyone who had breached anyone's confidentiality or privacy, because that's a Human Right, stated in Article 8. I am strong on Human Rights and my principles are to protect those for myself and others.

I see there has been some criticism of talking online, which I do not agree with. Talking about things anonymously are good because it can help, but there is no way I believe in making certain things public as in everybody knowing who that person is and what they did. If they have done that to others by writing a book, they have opened themselves up to comments, though. Books are always critiqued.

Smileless2012

A change of heart and a change of perspective Onward.

I honestly don't know what he expects his father and brother to do. Are they really ever likely to have a private heart to heart with him when in all likelihood, it will be plastered all over the media?

I don't see how he can Smileless. It's terribly sad, but how can they trust him again?

It would be nice to think there can be forgiveness and that trust could be rebuilt, but at this time it seems unlikely unless H was to sign some sort of paper to promise that he would keep it confidential.

I'm thinking of writing a book, set in the future, in the style of Sue Townsend.
(no plagiarism to be involved)

I wouldn't trust him every again, it has been broken and there's no way back now. He has seriously hurt so many people and what's worse he's constantly the one playing the victim.

Others could consider themselves victims too but they don't.

Charles - being made to marry a lovely young girl but he didn't love her. At least he has married the love of his life now.

William - in the unenviable position of being the heir and perhaps thinking his brother is the lucky one. Thankfully, he has a supportive wife and lovely family.

Harry - now what can we say about Harry? Being The Spare means he did not have his life exactly mapped out for him. He could escape if he wanted to and he has escaped overseas, married a woman who loves him and has two lovely children.

Counting your blessings is something perhaps we should all aim for if we want to achieve peace and contentment in our lives.

I don't count myself a victim, because it was me who walked away this time by choosing not to react or engage with the toxic barrage of nonsense. I definitely do count my blessings as I have not allowed myself to be formed into what he tried to coerce me into and even though I have lost some things, I have not lost myself or my values. I have much to enjoy and peace with which to enjoy it.

H could see himself as blessed for not being the heir and being able to walk away and start a new life. Some people have suggested that H is the Scapegoat. Often the Scapegoat is the most emotionally healthy person in the family and the one who is most free to start a new life seeing as they are not enmeshed to anyone.

Some people have suggested that H is the Scapegoat. Often the Scapegoat is the most emotionally healthy person in the family

Not sure that that is the case here, though OnwardandUpward

I thinking reason for the book's popularity and continuing interest in Harry is the shadow of Diana. When she died the level of public feeling, love, interest was overwhelming, I'm not a royalist but can recall that day and what happened afterwards and the initial response of the "Establishment" and how it had to change written forever in my mind. It hasn't left others, either. An irony of course is that the Red Tops took on "Diana's Issues with the Royals but now....

That said, I think Harry has said enough. (ie no more outpourings or books). For his own sake, because the chance for some healing has not entirely been lost but will be if he continues.

Callistemon21

^Some people have suggested that H is the Scapegoat. Often the Scapegoat is the most emotionally healthy person in the family^

Not sure that that is the case here, though OnwardandUpward

Or me!@Calistemon21
Just throwing it into the mix though

I am a scapegoat myself and am not enmeshed to anyone, but the golden kids are.

I wouldn't trust Harry again.
When somebody shows you who they are, believe them.

Yes!

Whatever I have been through I did not write a book naming and shaming my relatives even though they are not "famous" or revealing private medical details about them, military information, private details about the layout of their home or any other confidential data. If I did, I would consider myself to be a very vindictive person.

These are the standard I would use to judge myself, therefore I would apply them to anyone. I support anyone writing about their own health, their own kids, their own achievements and their own home- these hurt no one and give a good picture of their personal victories and values.

OnwardsandUpwards I am in total agreement with your last post.

VioletSky

Does anyone have a list of the lies and the proof they were? Is there an article? I've seen this stated many times but haven't been able to see it proven other than people saying it's a lie which is also technically questionable

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvyqQhcZmFQ

one recent example

VioletSky

If I had been trashed all over the press, in often racially loaded ways and my own father and brother stood back and said nothing...

I'd be wanting my father and brother back too, in the roles they should have inhabited from the beginning.

This is what happens when you have a an image motivated family invested in rug sweeping and you try to tell the truth because your childhood and your own family have harmed you.

Only in this case, it has played out in the public eye and quite a lot of the public are just as invested in the image of the royal family as the royal family themselves..

Interesting view VS. I don't know if it's my (older) age making me think differently, but with the best of wishes and no antagonism meant - here goes:

If I had, I wouldn't want them back. People cannot be what they never have been, it is too late. I would work on accepting "it is what it is", "when a person shows you who they are, believe them". When you accept who and what they are, you don't expect them to change, you adjust your expectations and move on. For example, a narcissist cannot change. They simply are. It is who and what they are. To expect them to be anything else is simply a waste of time. Probably the same goes for any personality disorder which is not recognized by the person who has it. The term anosognosia has been mentioned and applies to people who are unaware of their own condition.

I would take what was rightfully mine and live my best life without them, protected and safe from harm, enjoying the best things.

Personally am not a RF fan at all, so my judgement of H is not based on loyalty to the others but my personal values and standards.

As my therapist once said " We can't change others, but we can change the way we deal with them". I wish you peace and love and all that's good as you accept that they couldn't be what you needed because of who they are. It is hard, but it's possible to work on loving and accepting yourself so much that you don't need their input anymore. Then, if you have it, it's a bonus to you but is no longer essential to your wellbeing.

Joseanne

Great post @ 20.07 Onward.

Trust is vital in any meaningful relationship and Harry may find that the road to rebuilding it with his family, in particular his father and brother, will be a long one.

As I posted earlier, I do think it's brave of Charles to offer peace talks and I hope that if they do take place the content is kept private.

When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. It can be so hard Sparklefizz especially when it's hard to believe that they're not the person you thought they were.

Thanks Smileless

Sending love to anyone who was scapegoated by a narcissist, it was never anything wrong with you, it was who they are. themindfool.com/what-is-family-scapegoat-how-to-break-free/#:~:text=Usually%2C%20the%20blacks%20sheep%20or%20family%20scapegoat%20is,power.%20Thus%2C%20they%20want%20to%20suppress%20the%20scapegoat. I have been through it and come out the other side.

I am not sure H was the Scapegoat, but I think sometimes we can assign our own values to others because we are kind and concerned. I admit, it could look like W is the Golden Child, but it doesn't matter who was born or when in the RF, it only comes down to birth order. Whoever was the firstborn was going to be the heir. It could have been H, but it wasn't- and that's not something that he or his parents were in control of. It doesn't really help to rebel against something that was predetermined before birth, but I can understand as a child that it must have been really hard to comprehend and deal with. Ideally there should have been support on hand to help deal with these very different roles and expectations- but we don't know if it was or not.

I'd love for it to be that easy Onward

I loved my mother and wanted to fix her, fix me, fix our relationship

It took years after estrangement for the hope to die

I had to know I did everything I could to be in the place if acceptance I am now

People are different I guess and I don't expect anyone to handle things my way, least of all Harry who to me is just.. Well he is just a public figure

Over the years I've written hundreds of comments on gransnet, hundreds of reasons why I am estranged... if I compiled them into a book would it matter?

No I would still get those who judge me for my estrangement and would take the side of a woman they never met against me

The only comfort is that those people are in the minority and quite obviously projecting their situations onto me. So it's not about me and I don't take it personally any more

If writing about your estrangement VioletSky has always ended up with negative comments why still do it?

Admittedly, I do not go on estrangement threads that often, but when I do I am not aware of all these posters judging and blaming those posting on the subject who are experiencing it. The vast majority of posts seem to me to be helpful and supportive.

I see Harry as the one doing the scapegoating, making his father, brother and to a lesser extent Camilla as scapegoats Onward.

As you say, no one has any control over who will be born first and from what we've seen from Harry it's just as well that he wasn't. Would he have turned out differently if he had been? We'll never know, and neither will Harry.