DIL ignores sister

Allsorts

Very unkind response by some to the poster. Is she not supposed to care about the sister she loves and being treated so badly. Of course she can’t say anything or interfere she is just worried, The dil is being cruel and the son accepting of that, he wants to grow a pair.
My advice for what it’s worth is let them get on with it as whatever she does or says will be misinterpreted and used against her by jealous dil, for thats what it is. If it were my son if he ever he visits alone, I would tell him quietly how hurt and abandoned I felt not being part of their lives and missing her only grandchild. I had always loved dil. Then leave it at that. She then concentrates on what she can do to live a happy life the best she can as you can’t change anything, it’s out if her hands, no doubt she’s already spoken with dil about it and got nowhere. I know lots will say do nothing just wait.
There are mil from and dil from hell, it’s a misfortune if you get either because they wreck families.
Poster you are doing what you can, by caring and including her no doubt that gets her through. Caring and kindness is never wasted,

There are mil from and dil from hell, it’s a misfortune if you get either because they wreck families.

There must be fil and son-in-law from hell, as well as sister-in-law and brother-in-law-- rationally, in addition to mil and dil.

Advice remains, wait it out quietly. Some say 'hush and wear black.'

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Godmothers shouldn’t really get involved in family matters. 🤷‍♀️

About the term used, my parents used it back in the 80s, so not new at all, at least in Canada.

Why would you want a new one if the old ones still working OK 🤣🤣🤣
Guessing it’s come across the Atlantic Canadagran I ve never heard it used although I have a good few grandkids and work with some youngsters

Smileless2012

^encourage her to play the long game instead of trying to 'help' whilst the baby is still young^ good advice keepingquiet.

I agree. I was always hostile to help as a young mum.

PS. I'm not saying this is a game!
I just mean, her time will come with patience and respect.

As always in these situations the key lies with the sons.
They are totally in thrall to their wives, who in contrast to their own mothers, are domineering, controlling and stop at nothing to get their own way. In two cases I know well, both mothers raised their sons single-handed after messy divorces, and the sons were determined to build a happy home with a hands-on father , therefore would not dream of opposing their wives and wrecking their dream.
Very hard.

DiamondLily

I don’t know the OP, her sister, or anyone else in the family. If this has been posted elsewhere, then I still don’t know. I don’t know the family dynamics.

But, as a general comment, I would say that coercive control can exist within a relationship, or marriage. I think it’s recently become illegal.

I think to describe the victims as “spineless” is a bit harsh - control can creep up, undermining the other person in stages. It’s insidious.

Men or women can be coercive.

But, as I say, I don’t know the OP, and it might not be the case anyway.🙂

Good post DL.
And believe you me, I have cause to know.

eazybee

As always in these situations the key lies with the sons.
They are totally in thrall to their wives, who in contrast to their own mothers, are domineering, controlling and stop at nothing to get their own way. In two cases I know well, both mothers raised their sons single-handed after messy divorces, and the sons were determined to build a happy home with a hands-on father , therefore would not dream of opposing their wives and wrecking their dream.
Very hard.

The key lies with self-aware mothers of adults. Quite often the mothers who view their sons' wives as domineering are the mothers who are used to being the primary figure in their sons' lives. They tend to have issues with multiple partners of their sons, yet fail to see the common individual each dispute (themselves).

In these situations, trauma from divorce unfortunately leads to emotional co-depenedence on their sons. They then struggle to adjust to new family dynamics. Mother views son as her own advocate, rather than individual adult fathers/husband. I have even seen it with my own son in law's mum. These threads are filled with other examples. A son refusing to wreck his happy home should be vewied as virtuous quality to a mother who cares more for the happiness of her children than herself.

I agree eazybee, that is certainly the case with our ES and his wife despite being raised by both parents in a loving and caring home.

It remains inexplicable to us how he's allowed himself to be controlled and dominated by his wife especially as it is in stark contrast to how he was raised.

It happens though Smileless. In our case our daughter suffered from coercive control by her husband. They’re getting divorced now, but we have all gone through a lot to get to this stage. It took years before she recognised what he was doing to her. And it continues, even though they’re separated and now living in New Zealand (this is a common tactic from narcissist people who coercively control their partners, they isolate them from friends and family) and even bringing the children home for a Christmas visit is causing severe problems as he is refusing to allow it. The courts are now involved.

Yes it does maddy. Coercive control became a criminal offence in December 2019 but despite this the damage done to families by a third party is often overlooked and parents, often the mothers are blamed when in fact it is the s.i.l. or d.i.l. who is responsible.

I hope that now the courts are involved this nightmare and heartbreaking situation for you, your DD and your GC will soon be resolved.

You are always in my thoughts maddy.

The vast majority of the time the only people who truly know the dynamics of a marriage are the two people themselves, until one or both parties discloses information. Assumptions that fuel our own outsider perspectives seldom yield positive results. The couples tend to choose each other. It's just more comforting to assume someone else is nefariously responsible for your own child not doing what you want them to.

Regarding this post, there is zero inclination wha that the "son" is being controlled. The irony of a mum accusing her DIL of being controlling because her son won't make his wife do what the mum wants would be funny if it wasn't so toxic. I don't recall my grandparents generation being as controlling and over-involved as many current grans, hence fewer instances of these troubling schisms.

Sorry for the typos. "zero inclination that the son is being controlled."

Thank you Smileless, that’s so kind. The one thing that’s good is that although she’s so far away, we are in regular contact and we spend several weeks there each year. When she was living very near, we had times when he prevented contact with us. It’s my opinion that most of the estrangements that happen after an adult child gets married are caused by the new husband/wife.

Hopefully they’ll be able to make their Christmas visit. The children are so happy and excited about it and talk about it to us often we video chat with them. The total relocation will take much longer to sort out, the courts will be involved and we have no idea how that will end.

You’re right, coercive control is illegal here in the UK, but it’s not illegal in New Zealand.

Feverjo
Coercive control is very real. It is insidious and difficult to prove. My daughter knows she was coercively controlled. In fact she told me that it had been happening for years. She told me things he said that clearly show coercion. There are many details that I will not write on a public site, but believe you me, when I heard some things she told me, I cried.

Is there ANYTHING she can do??! She's not likely to approach DIL. If I was there, I would rip my nephew a new one.
quote from OP

Now there is an approach that should guarantee that no one on father's side ever sees the bay, or its parents again. again.

maddyone

Feverjo
Coercive control is very real. It is insidious and difficult to prove. My daughter knows she was coercively controlled. In fact she told me that it had been happening for years. She told me things he said that clearly show coercion. There are many details that I will not write on a public site, but believe you me, when I heard some things she told me, I cried.

I am really sorry your daughter went through that, maddy. It's horrific to even think about. I am very happy to hear your daughter shared with you so that you could support her and help her heal. As a mum, I take these situations to heart.

I take it so serious in fact, that makes me cringe a bit when I see the term weaponized where the true underlying issue is just a mum wanting her son to side with her in disputes with his wife. Using that term in such an unconfirmed manner is highly manipulative. When thinking about people like your daughter actually living through it, it's just so inappropriate. Too often when some grans can't control their adult son/spouse or daughter/spouse, the go-to social slander is either attack the mental health of the spouse or accuse them of controlling their child. It's damaging.

That really surprises me maddy, probably because the legal framework in Australia is very much like our own and I assumed New Zealand's was too.

It makes me cringe Feverjo to see comments like the go-to social slander in relation to coercive control. For those of us who have seen loved ones manipulated and their families torn apart, coercive control is as maddy has posted very real. It is insidious and difficult to prove and it's power to destroy is frightening to behold.

maddyone

DiamondLily

I don’t know the OP, her sister, or anyone else in the family. If this has been posted elsewhere, then I still don’t know. I don’t know the family dynamics.

But, as a general comment, I would say that coercive control can exist within a relationship, or marriage. I think it’s recently become illegal.

I think to describe the victims as “spineless” is a bit harsh - control can creep up, undermining the other person in stages. It’s insidious.

Men or women can be coercive.

But, as I say, I don’t know the OP, and it might not be the case anyway.🙂

Good post DL.
And believe you me, I have cause to know.

So have I. It’s very cleverly done usually. Sort of like “mission creep”.

I’ve never really understood why one person seeks to control every thought and action of another.

It can cause chaos in families.☹️

Smileless2012

That really surprises me maddy, probably because the legal framework in Australia is very much like our own and I assumed New Zealand's was too.

It makes me cringe Feverjo to see comments like the go-to social slander in relation to coercive control. For those of us who have seen loved ones manipulated and their families torn apart, coercive control is as maddy has posted very real. It is insidious and difficult to prove and it's power to destroy is frightening to behold.

Smileless, speculation in't a substitute "difficult to prove" accusations such as coercive control. It should take more than "my son won't stand up to my daughter in law for me" to be able to accuse people of such things. It's insidious and slanderous to weaponize abuse terminology simply because one adult (adult parent) can't get another adult (adult son/daughter) to essentially bend the spouses to their wishes. It just isn't remotely appropriate simply because a grandparent is complaining about not getting their what they deem is their "fair share" of access to new babies/baby care. No one said it isn't real. It's just not real every time an entitled gran wants their child to "stand up" to their child's wife.

Indeed DL, it does cause chaos when one person tries to control other people in the family. Telling new parents who should be allowed to visit them, when, and how often. Using monetary "gifts" to control where other members live or who gets to babysit the babies of others. Attempts to pit spouses against each other. All of these behaviours are toxic. I find it so strange that some grans attempt to cause rifts between young couples when new babies arrive. I don't see how one's child finding their partner can be such a threat. I am so thrilled to take a back set to child-rearing.

I was posting about coercive control from my own experience Feverjo and the affect it has had on our family.

Feverjo

Indeed DL, it does cause chaos when one person tries to control other people in the family. Telling new parents who should be allowed to visit them, when, and how often. Using monetary "gifts" to control where other members live or who gets to babysit the babies of others. Attempts to pit spouses against each other. All of these behaviours are toxic. I find it so strange that some grans attempt to cause rifts between young couples when new babies arrive. I don't see how one's child finding their partner can be such a threat. I am so thrilled to take a back set to child-rearing.

Well, I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. My two ACs are married to lovely people, who I get on well with, and who have never tried to disrupt the relationship I have with my ACs.

But, it happens. And it’s sad when it does. There should be enough love to go around!

I don’t know - my daughter has 4 children (now adults), and virtually the minute she’d given birth, she was on the phone, demanding that I came to the hospital to visit my new GC. (Preferably bearing gifts (and best M&S strawberries lol).😉)

When she came home she and SIL asked me to go daily for a while to help out etc. Which I did.

She welcomed any visitors, proud to show off her new child. It all seemed pretty normal, with no dramas.🤷‍♀️

I never demanded to babysit or anything else. I often said no, as I was busy. I have a great relationship with the GCs, but it developed over many years. Living locally helped.

Of course there are toxic manipulative people - but it’s not confined to grans/grandads. Some young people can be pretty toxic as well. And some, all ages, are just Drama Llamas, seeking conflict over the silliest of things.

But, generally, everyone has fairly normal foibles, faults, quirks etc - in most families, it just results in a bit of eye rolling, and accepting people for what they are - without a widespread falling out.🙂