Over The Pond

keepingquiet

Although I am no longer estranged from my adult child I do wonder what these adult children will feel when their own child turns round and accuses them of being a terrible parent?

I do think they believe it will never happen to them...but it will, and then they will be wondering what they did wrong.

We have referenced back to it a few times now.

People making generalised comments about estranged parents are rightfully being banned after reports and I'm sure the moderators can handle it but this was on the very first page

I must admit this conversation has me a little confused and I have had to read back a few times just to check but here it still is.

If anyone else wants to have a discussion about anything I'm always happy to share my perspective

Yes we have referenced keepingquiet's post a few times and she came back to explain what she'd posted so I don't understand why you appear to continue to have an issue with it.

Like you, I'm also confused . A generalised comment has to be particularly unpleasant to get reported and be deleted; keepingquiet's IMO isn't.

Unfortunately, as much as I would like to find a resolution with you Smileless2012, how something feels to someone else isn't up for debate or discussion. It is absolutely ok with me that you do not see my point of view and that's a shame but I can understand that you and keepingquiet might have a lot in common and why you might feel defensive.

Madgran77

I think that reading through the comments shows what caused it.

Whilst I might agree this could be true in some cases, , I feel sometimes comments we read here do not reflect who the parent was , but what the parent becomes after being controlled, tortured crtisized endlessly and then set out to pasture, so to speak, despite all efforts.
Many posts reflect feelings of deep hurt, betrayal, frustration and clarity that they have adult children who distort truths, make inaccurate judgements just to justify their own lack of empathy and selfish behaviors towards their parents. It's all about control and if that isn't satisfying, eventually estrangement because they want to unconditionally be loved to the point their parents are nothing more to them than the proverbial rug to wipe their feet on.

That is something I can certainly empathise with, having a family member who tries to control you and emotionally my mother estranged me long before I took my physical self away from her. I have to think about the person I want to be though and that is not the person I would be were I to try and revisit any of the pain my mother caused me onto anyone else.

Starfire I am at a loss as to why you have quoted my comment in your post above. I was referencing the fact that reading through all the posts would identify why this thread has deteriorated - in response to NiceDreams comment that she didnt know why it had.

I was NOT suggesting that the comments show the cause of Estrangement which I think might be how you interpreted it!

And to add, being a dirty rug is quite dehumanizing. So these posts from patents reflecting such bitterness isn't surprising. I did have estrangement which partially resolved. But I will admit I am hurt and bitter. All it would really take is a bit of love towards me to end that bitterness. I get none, only get appearances for appearances sake and none of the things done to me ever recieved an apology. Yet I have endlessly apologized for things that were not offenses but things judged as I don't know, irritating I suppose? I really can't say. I know that as fact because I have been told by my AC that my choices in life were inferior to my ACs. Bragging and put downs isn't a loving thing to do to someone, period. So yes....bitterness comes from deep hurt and that isn't the reason of what happened, its the result. This can profoundly change a person, so the current attitude of such a changed person as being the cause in the past is incorrect and irrelevant. I can attest myself of the change. I would never have guessed in a million years I would feel so horrible towards one of my kids. Yet it could all dissappear tomorrow with a gesture of love. Without that I am afraid although I still love, the hurt is subduing the love more and more as time goes. Upside is I find I am not worrying anymore about my child's happiness in life. That is quite a lifted burden. I have grown to not care. But to me , that is the worst thing resulting in all this.

Madgran77

Starfire I am at a loss as to why you have quoted my comment in your post above. I was referencing the fact that reading through all the posts would identify why this thread has deteriorated - in response to NiceDreams comment that she didnt know why it had.

I was NOT suggesting that the comments show the cause of Estrangement which I think might be how you interpreted it!

Very sorry. Yes I did interpret that. So many other posts suggest this so I thought you were doing the same. Apologies.

Starfire57 so sorry you are hurting.

Sometimes hurt is an opportunity though. When life brings you down to rock bottom and you realise you just can't keep going forward as things are, you can take that opportunity to rebuild the life you need. Strange is it sounds, that is something I will always be grateful to my mother for. She left me so low the only way was up.

NiceDream

That is something I can certainly empathise with, having a family member who tries to control you and emotionally my mother estranged me long before I took my physical self away from her. I have to think about the person I want to be though and that is not the person I would be were I to try and revisit any of the pain my mother caused me onto anyone else.

You know I have to say it seems the controlling thing in most cases usually is the parent, perhaps as a result of our "parental duties" and what others expect of us as parents? Idk...could be somewhere in all that, normal disipline becomes some mutation of expectations wirh controlling behavior vs nuturing guidance? I really don't know because I didn't want to control my kids other than make sure I didn't raise psychopaths. One of mine has empathy the other doesn't but both like controlling me like their dad used to. So its so odd for me to look up these controlling types online and find I am an anomaly because children controlling parents isn't usually the norm its the other way around. Just my luck I guess.

Starfire57 I don't think it really works like that because controlling people have to start somewhere... And those same people will be children, parents, grandparents at some stage in their lives.

I think there is a generational disconnect in some places and some people probably do find it difficult to change which causes issues. That seems to be every generation if you ask me though so I am sure that will keep on happening

NiceDream

Starfire57 I don't think it really works like that because controlling people have to start somewhere... And those same people will be children, parents, grandparents at some stage in their lives.

I think there is a generational disconnect in some places and some people probably do find it difficult to change which causes issues. That seems to be every generation if you ask me though so I am sure that will keep on happening

Humm yes. I just see more of it being discussed as parents. But you are right

I think it is probably harder for parents. It's hard to.see our children struggle or make choices we worry about and it is hard to transition from having children to having adult children because of course you lose control. It's easy to understand how that is hard to let go because I've been there. Your children start as completely dependant and one day they land as equal adults.

I have absolutely sat on my thoughts many many times. This is their lives to live now and I am now a relative while they leave my family home and create their own family household with their own priorities and values.

I used to daydream about us all living in the same street but now I realise they needed to make their own choices and sometimes their own mistakes and that's an important part of them growing up.

NiceDream

Starfire57 so sorry you are hurting.

Sometimes hurt is an opportunity though. When life brings you down to rock bottom and you realise you just can't keep going forward as things are, you can take that opportunity to rebuild the life you need. Strange is it sounds, that is something I will always be grateful to my mother for. She left me so low the only way was up.

Thank you for your empathy. I am sorry too, that your mom left you so low. I wonder why parents are like that. Then there are parents who try their hardest but seem to be cast aside very quickly and easily over little nothings, wheras some kids who only ask for a supportive parent that cares and are willing to hang on until it's clear their parent doesn't care. I read of so many adult kids who know their parents have all these little flaws, irritating as they are and perhaps even a bit stubborn, yet the kids seem to understand they need to have understanding and patience for a different generation who simply acts or believes differently from them.

Opposing views, different ways of acting in one's personality does not mean they lack love or support, they are simply different people. And some adult children have maturity enough to accept those differences, others do not. I get that there are really awful parents but those ones tend to really not care about estrangement much.

Kinda more like good riddens. I have a friend who does, of course, love her kids but she doesn't really feel the need to be in their lives, nor actually care what happens to them, other than something horrible like severe disability or death, she goes on as though they are not important.

However, she does have, of her 5 children, 3 that absolutely adore her, one neutral and one who feels she is the worst person on earth.

I only have 2. One who has expressed appreciation for my mothering, which was very lax, actually, almost spoiled if you will, because I didn't believe in excessive punishments because kids will be kids; I tried to teach and explain the consequences of life being much more harsh than maybe a day with no TV or any other a parent might impose, as society has no reason to tolerate anything a parent might due to love.

This one does seem to care what happens to me. My other child is the one who I know has no love for me; did years ago, but a life change caused too much pain and I became the one who paid for it although I did not do it.

But I guess blaming me anyway is one way for my adult child to feel superior, which I suppose is necessary when life makes you feel inferior.

So I understand it, yet do not see it as an excuse to put me through what I am going through.

At some point, I have to admit, although I tried very hard to raise with love, to teach empathy and understanding, it only hit home with one of them.

Maybe because the other had different influences, which, btw my other kid actually pointed out the negative influences his sibling's friends had, which I didn't even notice at first, and thought he was wrong. But it has turned out to have contributed to shape what has come about.

Anyway, thank you again for having a heart. I am sorry your situation was so painful with your mom. I know how important it is to have a caring mom; I had a stubborn one, sometimes irritating one, but she always had my back when I needed her. That's important and I am sad you didn't have that.

eddiecat78

It would be wonderful if everyone who had children was a perfect parent. But that is virtually impossible because they are human beings. Alongside raising a child they will have multiple other things going on which the child is unaware of. They may have health or money problems or their marriage may be in trouble, they may be caring for a elderly relative - all whilst also having a full-time job. For most parents the child will be their number one priority and they really will do their best for the child. But expecting all parents to be perfect is just not humanly possible.
Most children grow up and realise what their parents were up against - and stop blaming them for everything

This is so true.

Starfire Very sorry. Yes I did interpret that. So many other posts suggest this so I thought you were doing the same. Apologies.

Thankyou. No worries 💐

My mother had a private face and a public face, I think that is what is so hard to explain about emotional abuse and neglect. I don't think she could even admit it to herself really, she would just find a way to justify it if she got caught out with evidence she couldn't deny.

I think that emotionally abusive people can't function without an emotional punch bag and so you become their method of coping in real life.

Since I estranged she has lost friends and other family members have realised mine was the truth and hers wasn't. I have my own family to take care of now though and just live my life for those who have always been there for me and like me as who I am. They wouldn't ever have believed her version for a second.

My mother had a private face and a public face, I think that is what is so hard to explain about emotional abuse and neglect

Yes I agree. It is a recognised aspect of many abusers behaviour sadly.

Yes it is Madgran and comes as quite a shock when you suddenly discover that the face you thought was genuine turns out to be anything but.

There are some really helpful articles on how to spot people like this without finding out the hard way, I will find some

canadianwomen.org/blog/signs-of-emotional-abuse/

This is a very good article, once you know the tell tale signs of an abusive personality type, they become very easy to spot just about anywhere really. Then you can change your own mental landscape and language. For instance, I feel great pity for this type of person and I truly wish they were able to recover and engage in positive experiences and relationships with others.

It's always important to remember, we cannot change them, it just isn't possible. They will never admit to hurting you and they will not stop trying once they have chosen you as a target.

That isn't true living though, it isn't healthy or happy. Cruelty only brings a very short lived buzz and it never fills the hole inside them. So pity them. We can walk away from them but they can never escape themselves.

Thankyou NiceDream I am aware of such behaviour patterns. And as quite a few other such lists do, this one clearly identifies patterns and signs of coercive control etc.

There are ofcourse different levels of public and private faces in different experiences and things can be very nuanced.

Madgran77

Thankyou NiceDream I am aware of such behaviour patterns. And as quite a few other such lists do, this one clearly identifies patterns and signs of coercive control etc.

There are ofcourse different levels of public and private faces in different experiences and things can be very nuanced.

In what way?

And another one, same poster.

DiamondLily

Well nothing much is actually solved on any message board, any more than it is by psycho babble pods, sites, links, counselling papers etc.🤷‍♀️

It’s more about support.🤷‍♀️

Too often “Support” seems to mean telling someone the other side of their conflict is absolutely in the wrong and that the writer is typically blameless. Support for sure means different things to different people. Commiserating daily about the same issue without an intent toward progression or healing would never be my idea of “support”.