Estranged Grandparents .

I totally agree that it should be about the rights of the child, not the grandparents. Every child should be allowed to know their family origins. This may or may not involve actual contact. It would be wonderful if all grandparents were caring and loving, unfortunately they aren't. It is so sad for those who are cut out from their GCs lives without any cause, but that shouldn't mean we should legislate to make all children have to see their GPs. I think riciorian's story shows that holding on, and waiting patiently can pay off. Standing back and not being dragged into dispute and argument must have taken great strength and patience and not condemning the ex-DIL must have been so difficult. So pleased it has had a happy ending.

Absolutely right redheaded mommy. The Children Act supports the fact that contact to children by family members/absent parents should be encouraged unless it's not in the interests of the child.
I empathise with grandparents, grandchildren and parents locked into destructive conflicts. It dominates life, wrecks health and affects other relationships than the ones at the centre of the battle.
It's a great pity that some excellent charities (Pro Contact for example) are having grants from central government and l.a.'s cut at a time of increasing need.

Yes, I agree, too, it should be mostly about the children, not the adults. There's a problem, however, I think, because the "best interests of the child" aren't always so clear. A GP may not be what one would call "abusive," but if they often badmouth the mom or dad or criticize their rules in front of the child, that could damage the child's respect for their parents. That, in turn, could hurt the parent/child relationship, which clearly isn't good for the child. A judge might not be able to predict those longterm effects, but they still might be there.

On the other hand, just because both parents agree that a certain GP shouldn't see a child doesn't mean they're right, IMO. They could both be vindictive, petty or just wrong. Also, one could just be going along to get along with the other. Unfortunately, since these issues aren't always so black and white, I guess the courts need some kind of basic standard to go by, and the idea of supporting a decision made by two fit parents probably makes sense, even though it can end up hurting some good, loving GPs. I just don't know how that problem could be solved.

I definitely agree that it has to be a case-by-case thing. What works for one family isn't necessarily going to work for another.

It's just such a shame such cases have to exist at all. Though I'm not in this kind of situation, I know that "there but for fortune, etc." So I really hope they find better ways to resolve these very sad problems.

In the UK we have the Children Act 1989. It isn't perfect, by the time families need the law to intervene, we're into least worse rather than best interests imo. It does though provide a baseline. The family court Judges are generally skilled enough to know these issues 'aren't always so black and white" and do have "basic standards" etc.

When life gives you a thousand reasons to cry,
show the world you have a million reasons to smile!

That's a marvellous expression yogagirl I though I commented on it, must be going. Senile !
X

No you're not going mad celebgran I put that quote on our page too

I, and I know C&S were all good kind mums & nans. I had no problems with my s.i.l till he cut me out'. I would only ever praise both of them, never criticised' When this all began with my D & her husban having a big arguemt whilst, I & my other D were on holiday together, he (my s.i.l) was phoning me every half hour, till I packed up and came home to help. Again I was praising him, telling him he was a good dad and husband. My D stayed with me during this time of their big arguemnt, I tried to mediate between them, to get them back together, but when I said to him 'it would be my D that would get custody of Laila (not his child) therefore Jack and it would be the mother & babies that stay in the family home, it's the man that leaves. With that his hate went from my D to me he took her back and cut me out! Fourth Xmas without them
Trying out a new key board... not good

Oh, Yoga, that's terrible! How can someone turn like that (like your SIL did) so quickly? Just because you mapped out the reality for him? And then stay angry for so long - four years - oh!

I guess your D is going along with this? After you were there for her when she needed you? That must hurt even more. I'm getting teary just thinking about it. Once again, I'm so very sorry.

I'm sure D must miss you sometimes. Perhaps, eventually, she'll miss you enough to contact you. I hope so. Have you tried to contact her - just her, not him or your GC?

You sound like a strong, confident woman. That should get you through. I hope this doesn't last too much longer though.

wendysue Thank you for your kind words. Yes I tried everything under the sun! Asking for a meeting to be set up, including his m&D, I said I would apologise if I'd upset him etc. I asked family members to help, this resulted in my losing my Son & f.i.L with his lies & deceit, using the "your my brother" on my Son. I'm back talking to my f.I.L that I'd been friendly with for 37yrs, but my Son is still lost to me :'( There was no meeting. I realised that my S.i.L & his mother are both narcissists, top of the tree types. My D & GD lived with me before he came along and we had a very special and loving bond.

Wendysue it's been 7 heads for us and some times I feel I just can't cope anymore, especially at Xmas.

In our case s I law rang our daughters godparents and cut them out after writing to us and doing same letter was written by our daughter.
No one thought it would be forever !

Tor and I were ver close but had volatile relationship and the year she had our beloved first Gra daughter her grandad was v ill I had p.o.a. And was busy trying care for him.
He only met his great Grandaughter once! Then row started when I rang her and she,said they were getting mollie ready go to see s I law Gran on birthday I said it is your Gran dad birthday next week and he never met mollie yet! Wham she went off on one and that was start.
Then I read text on her phone running me down.
We never discussed it it wish to my dying day I had ignored it but i texted her about it. She denied it. I admitted reading it. And then got last text from her saying she had new family now. Sorry to ramble on.

Her grandad died she was very awkward about funeral he was only Grandparent my children. Knew and she refused to come to burial of ashes.
She attended cremation but we only saw her once afterwards and then I saw text and after that she changed her landline and mobile we have no phone contact.

It will always hurt me especially when I tried so hard to be good mum I even paid for her to see specialist she was worried about being able have children and I was 24hr support when she fell pregnant as she had scares.
Imagine how hurt I was to be told 2 years later she had another child and didn't even tell us.

I survived but it damaged my health. I am vulnerable and so easily hurt now and I suffered skin condition dr said purely stress, also high blood pressure same again.

I CAN only hope to find peace of mind. At least I have good husband and marvellous son, but it has tested our relationship.

WE did get forms to apply to court and paid solicitor to try sort mediation she refused in most hurtful way then proceeded to assassinate my character.

I doubt we will ever see her again but I would give anything to just talk to her and ask why?

Obviously meant 7 years this iPad !

Yogagirl I know how very hard it is for you. A d smileless and all of us in this sad position especially this time of year.

So very sad Celebgran I feel your pain as it's the same as mine. I thought this morning that it's now become the norm, fourth Xmas without them :'(
After my two classes today, I'm meeting up with my ND and we are going to the Xmas market on Southend Pier, so that should be !lovely. My ND phoned me yesterday and it was a video call, it was amazing! It was like they were sitting in bed with me, just like my little Laila did every morning when she and her mum, my now EstD, lived with me! :'( :-) :'( :-)

Well we chose 3 cards yesterday one for Mollie Daisy and Lola does t feel right not to somehow and will e close a next voucher for each one.

Had my ct scan in and out no waiting at all! Got wait week or so for results.

Bought. New dress! Pleased stretch black lace job.
Cheapie from George can't believe how good it looks!

Enjoy time with your little one yogsgirl.

Spoke Steve our so son last night so pleased we seeing him at Xmas.

Off get ready for Xmas meal now.

Oh, celebran and Yoga, this is all so heartbreaking!

Not much to say beyond that, except that I'm glad you have other good family relationships, at this point, and I hope you continue to enjoy those.

Thanks wendysue and sorry we aren't normally so morbid! I was just putting you in pictures.

Today has been lovley well I was nervous had ct scan at hospital but was good no waiting then we had amazing. Xmas meal with good friends at local pub.

We are looking forward to Xmas with our son and have put decorations up,life really isnt so bad! My son rang last. Night and managed to make me laugh! We have x as angel that is lit and. He always said tacky so did Tor well I said its up and working he said are you bringing it, good idea I said, oh well cant guarantee it's safety! Bless him.

Feeling more positive hope you are yogagirl I know is tough for smilless at moment.

Oh, celebgran, please don't worry about sounding "morbid." I imagine it's hard not to when telling these sad stories. I understand that they are just one part of a person's life, even if a big part for some.

Hope your ct scan results are good. Glad there was no waiting and that you had such a great Xmas meal with your friends later!

Glad you're able to laugh and enjoy Xmas with all its decorations and so on! Glad that you'll see your son on Xmas and that you have this to look forward to.

Rereading your earlier post, it seems as if in that last conversation, you and Tor both pushed each other to the edge. And then she got caught at something she didn't want to admit to, so she just pulled away. If I were in your shoes, I probably wouldn't expect that to last "forever" either. How sad that she can't get past that. I don't want to raise false hopes, but maybe, in time, she will.

Yoga, rereading your post, I was thinking that you were trying to help and, sadly, it backfired. Do you think it would be worth reaching out to EstD one more time and just saying you're sorry you got in the middle? That you were trying to help but now realize you made some mistakes (or however you would word it)? And that you're sorry you got others involved? Maybe these specifics would work better than a more general apology? I'm not saying you were at fault in any way. Just trying to think of what you could say that might soften her heart.

Or maybe you're done trying. After four years, I certainly understand that.

I'm glad you have a good relationship with your ND. I know that probably doesn't fill the entire void but I hope it fills some of it. Hope you have a good Xmas!

Oh, wait, Yoga, I forgot, you have already disinherited EstD and S, so I doubt you feel there's any point in trying anything else. So sorry that it has come to this.

Also thinking that if you "cry every day," even if just in your heart, it might be a good idea to seek counseling, as some others have mentioned. Maybe even grief counseling, if that makes sense, b/c as some have said, there has been "loss" here and the feelings you have are a form of grief. Counseling can't change that, of course, but it may help you get past this very active stage of grief that you seem to be in, if, again, that makes any sense.

Wishing you and everyone here peace this Christmas...

Thank you Wendysue
I would do anything to have them all back in my life, but it can only come from my EstD now, and that will only be when she is no longer with her nasty husband & his mother.
I watched a programme on brainwashing, it was horrendous, but it did make me think of my EstD. The first thing the lady had to do was cut out her mother that she was very close to. It was a religious cult, she was there for 5yrs! She went back to her mother and I think it took just 6weeks to deprogramme, she then had to get her C back from them, she then sued and got million! It's on Really channel17, think it's Wednesday, I record everything so...
I made the mistake, after 3months of trying to get back with my D&GC in the nicest of ways, of going to court for visitation order to see my GC. In my statement, that he saw, I stated, that in my opinion, he (s.i.L) is a narcissistic paronoid schizophrenic, due to his drugs addiction. So there is no way I will see my EstD&GC whilst she is with him.
My ND showed me an article in a paper, online, about Diane from Blue peter, in the same situation as us and the only reason she went public with her story is because her s.i.L took a restraining order out on her, so she said she needed to clear her name. The s.i.L even moved his girlfriend into their (Diane's D) home and made Diane's D sleep on the settee! Diane's D stayed as s.i.L told her she would loss her C !!

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201512/medium-425635-image.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201512/medium-401434-image.jpg

Wendysue just got to say thank you for taking time and trouble to read our posts and comment InSuch thoughtful way had to call my dh to read your post he was amazed !

Your are 100% Tor and I pushed each other to the limits and being the mum I will always regret my part in it I should have been more tolerant and let things go at times.

We pray one day she will soften but after 7 years of course it would be difficult Denise Roberts on this morning said it is never too late but is it ?
Who knows. Have to keep a little hope alive don't we.
I do believe she is manipulated by my s I law.

So we reach another Xmas without her and despite all well meant advice my dear husband chose next voucher for each one and we chose 3 cards do hope they get to see them.

At least it can go on my gravestone I never gave up!

Rhinestone glad you feeling bit better yogagirl chocolate has feel good ingredient tahrs why we crave it at times !

I have v s ore throat and not even dressed yet let Graham have car and no acquacise feeling horrid!
Hope Improve meant be Xmas shopping tomorrow!

Did Tor godmother pedicure yesterday didn't feel great she cancelled as got returns of her cough but I agreed to do her feet as not time to rebook before Xmas. Can't blame her bugs for this tho!

Smileless don't go to oz for good! Would be awful but mustn't be selfish.
Our son suggests us moving near him he is 200miles away but our life is here in frinton!

Glad you appreciated my words, celeb and Yoga. But I realize nothing I say can really help - wish it could.

Just sending more hugs again to everyone here who is hurting...

But it did help wendysue it really did !

Thanks for hugs and sending them back and wishing peace mind of anyone either on here or reading it who is facing sadness at this time of year especially.

Hello everyone,

Reading your stories has helped me a little with what I am going through right now.

My son and his wife live roughly 200 miles from me. They are both high fliers, and always seemed very content with that lifestyle. I have some health problems, which means travelling alone is not possible. I saw them fairly regularly though, my son probably more so, and they came away on holidays with me. From the beginning, I felt that my son's wife held something of herself back. I have two sons, and the three of us have always been very close, particularly since I was widowed some years ago. At first, I think I over compensated with her, buying gifts, hoping for a mum/daughter relationship. Finally, I accepted that it wasn't to be, and we settled into what I thought was a comfortable relationship.

To my - and their - absolute delight, they had the most gorgeous little girl, who is now two years old. I have seen her just twice, the last time when she was nine months old. During both those visits, it became glaringly obvious that my daughter-in-law resented my even asking to hold her, let alone help feed or change her. I just put it down to new mum stuff, and didn't show how hurt I was.

However, she has now decided that she is not comfortable coming to my home, and a recent birthday celebration was cancelled because she apparently said the only way she would come is if they stayed in an hotel, and I could visit briefly.

She is from another country, and it appears that she only wants the little one to know her family, and their culture. They spend weeks at a time there, and will be there through Christmas and the New Year.

I am beyond heartbreak, as is my son. I have told him that I will not make a fuss, or do anything to cause him unhappiness, or put more pressure on him. It breaks my heart though, because he seems so lost. We are in constant contact, but of course, it feels like I have lost him too. I miss him.

Sorry for the epistle, but I just needed to get it out.

Oh please don't apologize, Gabrielle! It's good to "get it out" and this is certainly a good place to do it! I think you'll find a lot of support and understanding here.

I so feel for you and your son. Clearly, your grandparenting experience is not what you expected it to be. And he is uncomfortable with the amount of time they are spending with her family.

It seems she is from a different culture/ethnic background than your family. Is that correct? Do they live in a different country? I don't mean to scare you but is he worried that she might take the child and go to live there?

Anyhow, about the hotel - Are you sure that DIL wanted to stay there because "she is not comfortable coming to your home?" If so, I know that must hurt - it would hurt me, too. But is it possible she has just decided she would like more privacy? It's still disappointing that she won't stay with you, I know, but it may not be personal.

That doesn't explain her only wanting you to visit briefly, though, if you people were supposed to be celebrating a birthday. It does sound as if she is trying to push you away and focus only on her own relatives. My heart aches for you!

It's good, I think, that you're not making an issue out of it or putting pressure on DS to rectify the situation. Since he seems to be unhappy with it, himself, perhaps, in time, he will make an effort to change it. Or maybe he already is, but he hasn't/they haven't figured it all out yet. Hopefully, it will all get better as time goes on... Patience...

"Gabreille* so sorry for your really sad situation. Copy & paste your post, we need to get back to 'our' page on this subject, as we are now on two pages on the same issue!

Relationships
Support for those cut out of their childrens lives