Ask a DIL...

No, Yogagirl You refuse to understand. My 4 daughters have done nothing at all to their mils, the sons have co their miums. "Ammaz you need to ask your last question to Norah as all her 3 Daughters have cut out their m.i.l's" Not true at all. None of my business.

So just so I'm reading this right. Norah who enjoys a loving and strong relationship with all of her children is being critised and attacked for how she develops and handles that relationship by those who've been CO.

Ironic.

Norah I apologize, it's your 4 daughters that have cut out their m.i.ls not 3. How can it be none of your business when it's your 4daughters Of course it's your business! Theirs first, but still your business it's your daughters,you write about it all the time, so it's part of your life too isn't it

So if a son-in-law didn't get on with his mother, and had nothing to do with her, it would automatically be his wife's fault, and by association her mother's fault for influencing her and inciting her to influence him?

In my experience, most adults (and their spouses) are quite capable of managing their own relationships with each other, their parents and their inlaws without interfering with each other's relationships or succumbing to interference. Those who can't are either immature themselves or tied too inescapably to demanding parents who want to be the main emotional influence in their children's lives for ever.

A thing can be part of one's knowledge without being part of one's 'business' or responsibility.

yogagirl Norah has said continuously that her Sons in Law cut off their mothers; their wives ( Norahs daughters) are just supporting their husbands with decision!! I'm not sure why you don't seem to have picked up that point but it is beginning to read like you are deliberately trying to provoke Norah for some reason. I apologise if that is not the case.
I do not agree with quite a lot of what Norah says, but just provoking, if that is what it is, is frankly just boring!

Well I will except your apology Madgran because if you care to scroll back to when Norah first mentioned about her 4Daughters not having there m.i.l's in their lives, Norah clearly said it was her Ds that did the cutting out! Afterwards she backtracked as she could see it sounded bad, but initially she did say it was her Ds doing the 'cutting out'. There are some posters who enjoy scrolling back over post, even 4yrs back, to copy & paste the original post in question, but I'm happy to say I am not one of them

Norah is not estranged from any of her AC yet is a main poster on these threads of support, making a big point of how happy her family are together, yet how her daughter's husbands have nothing to do with their mothers, all 4 of them

Yogagirl I replied to your comment above on another thread (a living bereavement) where you posted the same comment....which I now realise is why |I couldn't find my comments on the other thread!!

Oh dear Madgran we know what happened now

yogagirl ha ha! Confusing or what!

I'm a DIL and I get along very well with my MIL. One thing that I notice with a lot of friends and peers is that MIL have high expectations of their DIL. One of the reasons my MIL and I get along so well is because my DH is the one who handles all of the day to day communication. Why is it that MILs expect DIL to be their son's personal secretaries.

DIL1991 I think it goes back to when the man went out to work and the wife stayed at home. if he was the one working then it seemed only fair that the wife took care of the home and say, the social side of things. Now that both usually have to work, that is probably changing, but these habits of thinking take some time to break.

Thank you for your post. I agree with a lot of what you said, and disagreed on a few things as well. I did get along with my future dil before the baby was born. After he was born I felt pushed out, invisible. I can understand not wanting others to babysit and request sleepovers and requesting to feed baby, however when the dil posts pictures of her parents doing all these things and telling you in indirect ways they are allowed these things, it’s very hurtful to the in laws. We are grandparents too. I never bought first outfits or corrected my dil in any way. I was 100 %supportive. When she acted as though it wasnt important if we were in their lives I did get resentful and started speaking up more. Sometimes a mil’s actions are a result of deep hurt from being made to feel invisible in their chikdren’s Lives. Eventually they are hurt so bad they put up a wall so they aren’t hurt anymore. Eventually you will push them away completely. I am only speaking for myself, but please try to respect her needs to, or one day when you really need her she may be intentionally unavailable. Best wishes!

I get on well with my dil's and their mothers! Not that I still feel left out sometimes. How can you not be? Dil has a son, he wants to treat her to a day out this coming Mothers' Day. I can see why. She is a good Mother and he loves her. As does my son, but because they are going out I am left at home. So to compromise they are having me and OH round to their house on Saturday. There are ways and means of suiting everyone if you really want to.

Baby1 you are so right. It is hurtful when they show you photos of the other MIL with your Grandchildren if you are not allowed to do things with them yourself, holidays come to mind. Sometimes you are not capable because of problem knees etc. Just tell yourself that they want to share the day with you by showing you the photos. They do not mean to upset you, but I do get it. Do not treat it as a competition. It is even worse if all the dil's do it believe me I know having had 3 sons. I have also had this treatment, but grit your teeth and smile. Do not cause problems for yourself. If you put up barriers you will be the loser in the end.

The problem is, if one party does not wish to engage in building a relationship, from the start, then that "solution" is a non starter!

Madgran, I posted elsewhere that this is my trouble with my own MIL, she has never wanted me to do anything but drop off the face of the earth since I was barely out of high school. There is a point at which one walks away from a relationship that is never going to happen. I don't feel at all bad about this; I tried for more than half my life.

As for the other grievances raised in the thread, it is important to remember that every family situation is different. Sometimes there have been incidents in a family's history that entirely merit certain limits being placed on interaction with the children of the family for the children's safety.

I have never permitted, and do not think I could ever permit, either set of grandparents to change or bathe my children. My own mother routinely washed me in scalding water and domestos bleach, held me under the bath water, scrubbed me with a floor scrubbing brush until I bled, forcibly inserted foreign objects into my rectum, and when I was three attempted to perform female genital mutilation on me with a pair of scissors. As for my father in law, he was asked to stop his significant volunteering involvement at the local school after a string of complaints from young female pupils about him touching them in inappropriate ways and having very inappropriate discussions with them.

I do not think anyone would expect me to entrust my toddlers to these people for unsupervised contact, let alone overnights and intimate personal care.

Are there other family members who in the fullness of time I would have no problem babysitting my children overnight? Absolutely. But not those two.

Sometimes being a grandparent is not enough. You also have to be a safe and decent person.

Tragic that you had to go through all of that and I really feel for you gummybears, but please do not tar all grandparents with what these people were like. Our grandchildren are loved by all the different grandparents and what you describe is not normal, most grandparents can be trusted with children.

gummybears re engagment in a relationship, your case it was your MIL who did not wish to engage. In other cases it may be the DIL who does not wish to engage. Anyone who has not experienced that would find it hard to understand and in my experience always assumes that something must have happened, been said or done that caused the non engagement. That is not always the case.
For you, in terms of grandparents to your children, your experiences and their behaviour are not normal and I cant imagine anyone on thus site would expect you to involve your children with them

As the saying goes it takes a village to raise a child. I had a great relationship with both sets of grandparents. I sometimes think that new Mothers in this era have a lot of pressure trying to be everything wife mother and career. However having perfection doesn’t work. This is where grandparents are a great back up unfortunately MIL are always seen as the enemy. Particularly if they are close or we’re close to their sons. I think sometimes it’s a type of jealousy with DIL. It’s because they think we are competing. It’s a very immature way at looking at MIL as we are here to help because most of us are retired. We adore our grandchildren.. All very sad really but I think that new Mothers need to let go.. as I said before it takes a village to raise a child.

Leticia, this is so dead on! I so wish dil’s could understand this.

I disagree. No two people are the same and as such people can not be treated 'the same'.

Personalities, circumstances, relationships prior to the birth of the child all come into play.

One thing I've seen a lot of. Ew parents talk about with frustration is the tit for tat expectation. 'Well they've had a sleepover so we have to have one'
This is their child. Not a time share. There is no 'fair' there are parents who make decisions for what they believe is right and what fits in with their lives the best.
Many people do not believe in the whole 'it takes a village' anymore and value their independence in raising their own family.

I confess I haven't had time to read every response.But DIL123s early comment about a MIL who has made little effort ,or had little involvement until the baby comes along really resonates with my DDS experience with her partner's mum.For several years they,as a couple ,were lucky if she even got back to them if they phoned .Rarely invited for a meal.DDs partner virtually lived with our family on and off when home on leave from the forces, before they had their own house, as there' wasn't room for him', despite a large house. His mum has been totally focused on her younger son from her 2nd marriage, whom she has smothered,and DDs partner has barely been acknowledged .Now obviously I don't know the full history of their relationship from way back when.
But still when our DD had the baby I have stressed that even though she and I are close,and live nearby,to not leave the other grandma out.It's her grandchild too.And our DD has really tried,and is still trying for her DHs sake as much as anything,because she knows deep down he's still seeking love and approval ,and a relationship his mum.
But it galls her that MIL has turned up unannounced at inappropriate when she's settling the little one.Seems to think her son should ferry DGC up to be played with at her house at a time that's ideal for her,not when they genuinely need help.Has a secret stash of fussy hand knitted clothes she changes DGC into when she's left with her for a few hours.Then takes loads of photos of her dressed in them.Ignores meals left when weaning,and feeds what she feels appropriate-the same cereal, spoon fed -even though DGC feeds indepently now.
In short DD said the other day 'she doesn't give too hoots about me mum,or even her own son,she just wants access to DGC .I bite my tongue and stay out of it.Mainly because the other grandma does one nursery pick up a week that I can't do.And again I still believe just because it's our daughters child,it's her partners too.I've just urged DD to take a deep breath,and as long as she feels DGC is safe not pick battles over things.In the grand scheme of things it a few hours here and there other grandma is in charge.But I know she doesn't always find it easy,and that's justified IMO.What worries her the most is that the timing of their baby coincides MILs younger son leaving for university and her having a void to fill.
It's made me realise how lucky I was with my own DMIL. Lovely kind,helpful but not at all interfering -and was very welcoming from day one of my relationship with her son.Not my DDs experience sadly.

To start with I was in a very similar situation as your DD washerwoman.

Good enough to birth her grandchild but not good enough to be family.