Concerned abt estranged toddler DGS health - signs and symptoms of poss abuse?

Where you draw the line is the letter of the law.

Not sure how and why you are messing with family court proceedings or why you are trying to intervene with parental responsibility.

If you have safeguarding concerns, report them. Give your name and be honest enough to tell the mum (or dad( what you have been doing.

Otherwise if you are not prepared to support them, take a few thousand steps back of your own outdated preconceptions and stop interfering.

painting

If this has only happened a couple of times, it would be hard to chalk it up to abuse. Keep in mind that this child has just gone through an extremely difficult experience and that he is still adjusting to his new routine.

If you don't really have any evidence beyond this, I think it would be far too early to make a report to social services. All you have is speculation, not concrete evidence that there actually IS abuse occurring.

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I'm going to take your post at face value, and set aside your obvious dislike of the mother.

What leapt out to me from your post was

"smelling of sweets" - does he smell of pear drops by any chance?
"extremely sleepy and tired"
"so thirsty"
and
"tired again after very little activity"

All of the above can be symptoms of diabetes. This was exactly how my daughter presented just before being diagnosed with Type 1.

If your son (NOT YOU), doesn't feel able to raise the issue with the child's mother, then if he has parental responsibility (i.e. his name is on the child's birth certificate) then he can take the child for medical attention himself and describe the symptoms and ask for him to be tested.

I would rule out any underlying causes for your grandchild's presentation before leaping to the conclusion that his mother is sabbotaging contact.

You say "We know perfectly well this little GC is not having any routine and from little information forthcoming is fed a series of inadequately-nutritional snacks through the day until 'teatime' and those tea time foods are not adequate for a growing toddler. Certainly, not choke-hazard-sized sweets routinely first thing in the morning or at all. I wonder if crisps are being fed before 'contact' handover...."

Where, exactly, is this information "forthcoming" from? And so what if crisps ARE being fed before contact handover? Maybe not the most desirable snack for a child, but not a cause for alarm.

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@paintingthetownred ... Whoah! There's no interference with court proceedings (In fact, I put in literally 100s of hours - nearly killing myself - preparing, collating evidence, writing and typing ALL the documentation through three separate court proceedings: I'm virtually fully self-trained Legal Executive now, thanks not!

Nor is there interference with Parental Responsibility; we've discussed this situation as a family and are all concerned about it...

This is not the first couple of times - but it's the first couple of times we (as a family inc with DS) have been able to see it in a home environment.

This has been passed to Children's Services - completely above board by DS - together with other very very serious concerns WITH evidence (drugs/ alcohol / serial ST relationships with convicted violent men)

After the distressing Hell our family has been through to reach this point, I'd not dream of dismissing someone else's concerns as outdated preconceptions.

OKay - my point is perhaps: Social workers can deal with the evidenced issues (above), but let's call what I'm concerned about which is covert 'mal-nutritional abuse' ... and it's coincided since the last enforced CAO.

What in practical terms might a parent - or anyone else - be doing/not doing to a child so he/she is exhausted / hungry / thirsty ... OR, does this sound like an underlying health issue? Diabetes?

Or even, in practical terms, how can DS flag up any health concerns to the other parent when the other parent's immediate response is to threaten to withhold contact?

Please understand - for my DS this is uncharted territory; for me it's uncharted territory to know how to support him and he does need and ask for his own Mum's (me) advice and support about being a parent.

Good grief! This is a worried grandmother asking for advice on Gransnet and you speak to her in that bullying abusive tone?

How the fuck dare you?

I think you are going to have to give it a bit more time squibsy. You will see your DGC on a regular basis now, and you will be able to see whether the little boy is thriving or not.

I think the little child needs to see a good GP ASAP to rule out any health issues.

The law is as follows. If the gran has any safeguarding concerns she should report it to social care or the police.

No concern of mine or anyone else's on here.

That is the appropriate course of action.

If that is an urgent child abuse suspected matter, do that. End of. Contact social services or the police.

Not a matter for dispute. A matter for the law. If the person concerned thinks that is not warranted, fair enough. Nothing to argue here about.

Painting

Wow some nasty comments and not much advice. Of course you know what's normal and what's not. It's heartbreaking and yes you must trust your gut feelings. Poor little love is probably confused but you need to ask why hes clingy when it's time to go home. Does he talk yet? I expect your head is all over the place. Some of us are supportive but it seems we have one or two who have come on here to give very unpleasant comments. Go away and troll somewhere else like the local rag. It's disgusting behaviour.

Gonegirl
You said what many of us are thinking.

Squibsy - "What in practical terms might a parent - or anyone else - be doing/not doing to a child so he/she is exhausted / hungry / thirsty ... OR, does this sound like an underlying health issue? Diabetes?

Yes, this is exactly what it sounds like. As I said in my post above, these are exactly the symptoms my daughter presented with just before being diagnosed. I urge your son to take appropriate steps around this

Or even, in practical terms, how can DS flag up any health concerns to the other parent when the other parent's immediate response is to threaten to withhold contact?"

Approach the mother, putting the child's welfare at the forefront, and not being accusatory in any way, around her parenting. He should say to her something along the lines of - "I'm a bit worried about Johnny. He seems so tired when he's with me. I've also noticed an odd, sweet kind of smell around him, and he's so thirsty all the time. Have you noticed any of this when he's with you? I have been told that these things could possibly be an indicator of diabetes. What do you think? Should we, putting his need ahead of our fractured relationship, take him and get him tested, just to eliminate that as a possibility. Especially as it is a life threatening condition if it's not treated

If she refuses, then I repeat that your son needs to take his son to a GP (or possibly, a pharmacist can do the test) for a simple finger prick test and/or urine test, to establish if this is causing the problems you describe.

If that's not the issue, then you can think about what else might be causing it. But I don't think lashing out at the mother, and accusing her of drugging the child to sabbotage contact, is going to be helpful.

Withholding contact is in breach of the CAO and should be returned to court for review.

Gonegirl I completely agree with your comments.

Actually my first thought was diabetes too.

I think it’s worth checking out. All you need is a urine sample.

A difficult question to answer. Calpol does have a sweet smell.
It's possible that he has been given it if he doesn't sleep well but there again he may well have been coming down with a cold or virus which would make him very tired and listless.
Have you any concerns with his weight? If not then he may have a good appetite for food.
Also remember that although he's with his dad and nan but to him at the moment you're both strangers sorry to say and in time he will get used to you and be more comfortable with you both and different surroundings. He doesn't know what's going on.
On the other hand, not knowing the mother it is possible that she has dosed the little lad just to ruin the contact day although you say that your grandson was better on the second access day.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions at the moment for fear of losing access again and more trouble brewing.
It's not for me to to jump to conclusions. I would wait to see how things progress but there again social services have failed lots of children by not taking action sooner. Therefore I or anyone else can't take the risk of advising you what to do but wish you all the very best and so hope that all turns out well.

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@paintthetownred ... you clearly have some mother or MIL issues of your own to deal with.

Hate is a very strong word - yours, not mine: I loathe behaviour never the person, let alone hate them: hate always rebounds so I don't ... end OF.

AND, YES, absolutely - mothers have a very important job to do ... I AM A MOTHER ... my first priority is to MY SON to support him: or should all women past child-bearing age just shrivel up and die being obsolete wombs. Phew...

And - oh dear -you really never have met a 'mother' who'll lie through her teeth about 'abuse'? Ask any Family Law Solicitor.

Otherwise, you just need to do one - because you have none of the facts about this and are knee-jerk responsing with your own ignorant bigotries.... why are you even on a 'Grandparents' forum except to get off on behaving like a Troll?

Thank you Hurdy Gurdy for the Diabetes feedback

Wow!!
I think that there has been a massive over reaction.
It is all the symptoms of type 1 as other posters have pointed out.
I am shocked that the first reaction is to accuse the mother of drugging the child rather than looking at it in a more considered manner.
I know it is a possibility but surely one would look at possible medical reasons before reaching such a conclusion.
Here’s a link that may help the diabetes research.
www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-1-diabetes-in-children/symptoms-causes/syc-20355306

Nothing to do with hate. It is the law.
I am utterly taken aback than anyone here would think it was anything else.

But not daunted.

Governors of a school would say the same.

Very simple. Utterly simple. Grandma if you have concerns, raise it with the police or social services.

It will do you no good whatsoever and even less help for the chld talking about it on here.

Tell social services,
tell the police.

If neither of these things are not warranted and you do not decide to do, fair enough.

But if you feel it is serious enough don't complain about 'bullying' if you don't

painting

Missfoodlove
From your remarks it's obvious that you've never come across an evil bitch mother.

The stuff that Squibsy describes happens!!! It's unfortunate for her ( in this situation) that diabetes never entered her head.

We all must have been typing at the same time and I now see the suggestions of diabetes which is possible. You can buy test sticks. A tub full for around £5. Press the coloured end onto a very wet nappy and see if the colour changes. Compare the colour to the chart on the side of the tub. Read the instructions to see how long to keep the stick in contact with the urine. All the better if you can manage to get a wee sample. I don't know how to do links but copied and pasted symptoms of young children from WebMD
Sudden strange behavior (acting “drunk”)
Breath that smells fruity, sweet, or like wine
Extreme drowsiness or lack of energy
Ongoing, intense thirst
Grunting while breathing
Heavy breathing
Huge appetite
Sudden vision changes
Sudden weight loss
Peeing more often (infants and toddlers may have more wet diapers than usual)
Difficulty breathing