Child Bride dies

Going there now. Been working all day and just catching up.

Completely unforgivable and utterly heartbreaking, Sadly another example, extreme maybe, of the little value placed on females and I would suggest this is because female strength is actually feared by many men. How many cases of death or severe injury do we not hear of? Girls who are raped often survive terrible damage which makes them unable to conceive or carry a baby to term. They are then discarded as being barren. This makes me weep, how can this be allowed? If girls menstruated oil, I'm sure military force would be used against their attackers.
Nothing and nobody can offer any justification for such barbarity.

Bez any of the people involved are charged.
Bez, anyone involved are charged. Child brides being given visas to enter Australia should be stopped, some are as young as 17 and are marrying men in their 50s.

I can't read some of these stories and the sad thing the children's mothers are just as involved in a lot of cases. Just disgusting!

I am having trouble posting on GN, things double up and won't post.

I will add when someone says they feel uncomfortable when they see women wearing the burka people get on their high horses. The new PM of Australia (Tony Abbott) said he was uncomfortable with the burka. There was the usual angry backlash, but what about the women who are forced to cover up, do these angry culture champions ever think of them.

Here you will find the position statement of the British National Secular Society on burkas in Britain.

If you enter "burka" in their wesite search box you'll get many pages of links to discussions about burkas and the wearing and/or banning of them. It must cover every aspect of the issue.

Here are the first two paragraphs of the NSs statement for anyone who doesn't want to go and read the whole thing (though I heartily recommend it):

"The National Secular Society has serious concerns about the wearing of the burka (full veil with face covering) or niqab (face covering), relative to their symbolic role and the subjugation of women; their making an issue of female gender and sexuality; their potential to cover-up evidence of abuse; and their potential to hinder a woman’s communicative abilities and integration within civil society.
These concerns notwithstanding, the NSS opposes any attempt to legally ban the burka or niqab. We do so on two grounds of principle: a woman’s right to choose what she wears, i.e. her right to free expression; and her right to religious freedom."

Thanks for that - thatbags. I couldn't open the link but appreciated the summary. Micelf, thanks for your posts - this is an interesting discussion and not an easy one to have without offending each other, but we seem to be managing that.

FGM and forced marriage are issues I have no difficulty making up my mind on - it's simply wrong. In the case of FGM, it's illegal child abuse if it takes place in the UK, or a UK child is taken abroad for the procedure. I understand those who are concerned about the implications of prosecuting parents, the implications for the children and wider family. Prosecutions of parents who neglect or abuse their children do take place. Why has FGM been put in a different category.

20 years ago there was a review of FGM in the town I worked in. The conclusion was that prosecution would alienate those seeking asylum. It recommended that professionals in health/social work should work with the communities to influence change. 20 years on, no change has taken place and we have an increasing number of immigrants/asylum seekers from countries where FGM is part of life. As others have said, changing traditions/beliefs etc is a very long term project. My belief is these little girls shouldn't have to wait for persuasion to take effect.

I try to respect the customs of people who come and live in the UK but I am uncomfortable about the veil/burkha. I can't get beyond seeing it as a symbol of oppression. The implication that women are must be covered or men will lose control. I do not feel it's appropriate for women to give evidence in court with their face covered.

I've just skimmed through what I've written and realise I sound a bit like a Daily Mail column, for which I apologise. It's like that Bob Dylan line ' yes I'm liberal and to a degree, I want everybody to be free.... '

Iam64 - you sum up my own ambivalence about 'covered up' women very well. Like most of us, I believe women should be free to choose their own style of clothing, but I question how free these women are to make their own decisions. There are health implications when women (and especially children) do not have exposure to sunlight. There are risks involved in loss of peripheral vision. Even in Britain, there are pressures on women who fail to conform to the unreasonable rules.

Thank you for the link, bags - we are told that the dress rules for women are not actually laid down in the Koran so it is not a question of religious freedom.