Voting quandry

Annie he is a man of principle. But in my view he and the current LP will will tax and borrow us into much worse trouble than we are in right now.

Lewlew - something you said caught my eye. The rich should pay their fair share. Who are the rich and how much is their fair share?

Can anyone in their right mind see Corbyn or Farron representing the UK on the world stage.

I cannot agree Fitzy for several reasons

Well Annie, he is certainly someone who attracts significantly differing views!

Ninny, without commenting on the state of my mind, yes I can imagine that. And it's quite alarming!

Nothing wrong with taxing and borrowing Fitzy!

Taxing is the state taking responsibility for what needs doing for all its citizens. Borrowing is necessary to create interest, without which there would be no point in saving. Pension funds couldn't exist without borrowing.

This is a fantasic time to borrow and the UK plc is still in one of the best positions to borrow cheaply. The important thing is that the money is borrowed to invest to create wealth, which is shared fairly. The UK has survived on borrowing to invest for hundreds of years.

No,I can't imagine it Ninny, which is terrifying, because with Johnson as Foreign Secretary the bar is already almost at ground level.

If YOU do not give a fig about the NHS schools higher tax higher Vat lower income high crime rates much higher shopping bills higher unemployment low police numbers. Vote CONseratives they will make life far worse. Don't say you were not told.

Fitzy It's impossible to drawaline,which is why taxation must be progressive. At the moment, it isn't.

Marginal taxation rates for somebody moving from unemployment to employment are typically 85%. In other words, a person only gets to keep 15p of any pound earned.

Additional rate income tax for people earning over £150,000 is 45%. NICs are capped, so higher earners get to take home more than 55p of every pound earned.

Is that fair?

DD taxing and borrowing are not just alright, they are absolutely essential. The issue is how much of each and what you do with the money. To my mind Labour are looking dangerously profligate.

Caretaker I do think we should pay more tax, but you can bet that it won't be those most able to pay who will be taxed more.

DD NICs are payable at 2% for all the earnings of the people you mention so they get to keep 53% of some of what they earn. And to be honest I think it's ok that people keep more of their own money than is taken in income tax. Of course they pay other taxes as well.

Fitzy54 Tue 25-Apr-17 18:49:48 The amt of revenues taken from the higher tax brackets is less in proportion to that of lower tax brackets. I pasted some bits below, but it's worth reading the article at the link in whole. This is not a Corbyn thing only, other politicians have talked about this for years. Naturally it was not an Osborne/Cameron priority. I hope better from May if she wants the middle income people's support. It's time to do something!

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hmrc-tax-richest-high-net-worth-unit-public-accounts-committee-mps-a7547596.html

A new investigation by the cross-party committee found that the tax take from very wealthy people had fallen by £1 billion since HMRC set up a dedicated “high net worth” unit to chase unpaid or missing tax from the rich.

Meanwhile the income tax paid by all other taxpayers has risen by £23 billion over the same period.

“HMRC's claims about the success of its strategy to deal with the very wealthy just don't stack up,” Meg Hillier, the MP who chairs the Public Accounts Committee said.

“The tax take for this group of people has fallen by £1 billion since HMRC set up its dedicated unit. At the same time, income tax paid by everyone else has risen by £23 billion.”

The committee’s investigation report says that HMRC’ has eroded public trust in the tax system with a “lack of transparency” and that the treatment of the richest could be “cosy”.

Lewlew I'm all for chasing people to pay the tax they owe.

It's difficult but let's be honest. If the Tories get in then the rich will continue to get substantially richer whilst those at the bottom will have their benefits cut even for those struggling in low paid work. But, the most terrifying thing of all is that the Tories will almost certainly destroy our precious NHS whilst we will have to sit and watch it sold off to private investors to make massive profit.

'Not voting Labour because you don't like Corbyn is like burning down your house because you don't like the curtains'
Please please please let's get rid of this present conservative administration which has already almost completely sold off our treasured NHS, and let's worry about leadership issues after we have secured this most important asset.
I have heard much criticism of Jeremy Corbyn, but as an impartial 'floating voter', I have yet to see any substantive evidence that he is guilty of any of the stated faults. There is, however, considerable evidence that he has been subjected to a number of smear campaigns.
Whatever you do, vote for what you believe in. Take time to read the party manifestos and don't be afraid to question your local candidates on their intentions. Our votes as women are a very hard-won privilege, so a deliberately spoiled vote is an insult to the brave people who fought for our enfranchisement.

Fitzy54 NICs are capped. Very rich people don't pay any more than moderately rich people. In any case they find other ways of being paid, such as in dividends or by deferred pension contributions.

If you think people should keep the money they earn, how do you propose paying for schools, the NHS, roads, the police, the army, social care, border control, pensions, administration of elections (this is costing a lot at the moment), etc etc.

As manual tasks become increasingly robotised and there is less need for unskilled people, should we just let unskilled and disabled people die? After all, it doesn't make sense to keep them in a fully "dog eat dog" market economy.There's not a lot of point keeping the very elderly and ill alive either.

The government isn't in the business of making a profit, but redistributing wealth and opportunity for mutual benefit, based on the values a society chooses to adopt. Maybe you'd prefer to live in a third world country, where tax is rarely collected.

sluttygran

Fitzy

People moving from unemployment to work do not get to keep 53% of what they earn. They lose any benefit they were receiving. They pay 12% NICs, 25% of everything over the tax threshold and possible a further amount if they have a student debt.

I said marginal tax rate.

Sluttygran and daphnedil

"I have heard much criticism of Jeremy Corbyn, but as an impartial 'floating voter', I have yet to see any substantive evidence that he is guilty of any of the stated faults. There is, however, considerable evidence that he has been subjected to a number of smear campaigns."

What smear campaigns are you thinking of.?

What 'substantive' evidence are you looking for , on what ?

sluttygran, what can you give as an example of faults claimed but no substantive evidence and the evidence he has been the victim of smears ?

Sorry POGS, I asked the same questions

For goodness sake, there is PLENTY of evidence of smears. I do not intend to spend time looking for them, because I'm tired and my eyes are dropping, but you must have been asleep or blinkered over the last 18 months if you haven't seen them.

PS.I have absolutely no intention of voting Labour, so I'm impartial, but is so blatantly obvious that the media and certain sections of the LP have had the knives out almost from the moment he was first elected as leader.

POGS
I can send you whole lists if you would like. I don't want to enlarge upon it here because it's boring and off-topic, shall I forward the info to you?
I suspect from your tone that you may be a little 'anti-Corbyn' yourself, so may not welcome reams of referenced transcripts!

sluttygran

Certainly not boring or off topic!

Perhaps you could post just a few at a time , on here, as I think PMing is rude when a poster raises a point but closes out other posters from responding to their posts.

You have highlighted a real problem for many voters Marbles, I have come to the conclusion that it is best to vote for what seems right for the circumstances of the moment & sometimes that can mean being out of kilter with ones core beliefs, but better to have an open mind & bend with change than to doggedly beat the same drum .