Why are we leaving?

It's all scaremongering loopyloo! Life is full of uncertainty!
Leaving the EU is full of uncertainty but we cant live in permanent fear of uncertainty. Things change and we adapt. Or we can carry on howling at the moon.

Wow! ck33 that is shocking! You have never said this before and so I had to wonder why you were so afraid.
After saying that, the people who said these things about your accent are obviously low-life so do not paint us all with the same brush.

Referenda that are conducted in the way the EU referendum was are only ever going to be totally destructive. With a pure first past the post system you could, in theory, change the whole future of the country by just 1 vote. This is not democracy. The 48/52 difference was not a clear enough margin to give any government a mandate for Brexit. In the 1979 Scottish devolution referendum the result was a narrow majority in favour of devolution (52% to 48%), but a condition of the referendum was that 40% of the total electorate should vote in favour in order to make it valid. But the turnout was only 63.6%, so only 32.9% of the electorate voted "Yes". In the EU referendum only 37% of the electorate voted to Leave and so, had the rules been the same as those in 79, the result would not have been valid. A far safer outcome.

ck33
I have spent a lot of time in France and I can say that I've had many anti British comments made to me, and that was long before brexit. But these people were probably just as ignorant as your neighbours.
I spend a lot of time in the winter with Germans, and i can honestly say that there has never been any animosity towards us, unlike some of your countrymen.

Bamabam,

I'm intrigued as to how your friend in Spain managed to vote in the referendum if she has lived there for 30 years. No Brit who had lived abroad for more than 15 years had a vote.

As EU nationals living in the UK are being used as bargaining chips and there has been no agreement on their rights after Brexit, nor the rights of UK nationals resident in the EU, I don't see how anyone can say with any certainty that everything is going to be hunky dory post Brexit. The noises coming from May haven't been particularly reassuring, nor have the actions of the Home Office in sending hundreds of letters to EU nationals resident in the UK telling them to prepare to leave (even though these have turned out to be sent in error).

I'm afraid that Brexiteers' insousiance in the face of all the evidence isn't at all reassuring.

I know, we also have «them» and I am sorry for you. Ancestral ennemies!. the history between our 2 countries does n’ t favorise trust!,,, look at the atmosphere during the 6 nations rugby cup. But that hides a genuine respect and curiosity towards such a different culture across such a narrow sea. (As I look German and my accent has anglicised, the comments were not specifically anti French! ).

So much for taking back control - Reuters is reporting that the Brexit divorce plan is to be sent to the WTO for their approval, which is why countries are beginning to linked up to object to our plans like USA

ck33 I wish you all the best too, and yes, like others have had comments when in France ( not other EU ) countries though, but assume they are ignorant oafs, you should do the same.
Controlling immigration from EU countries is not the only reason for us to leave, but see nothing wrong with that anyway.
You have been here such a long time and have family here, when we have formally left the EU I imagine any comments will cease, presumably you have a choice of which country to live in.I have not read any of your other posts so couldn’t be expected to know that you are not British.
Remainers just love labelling anybody xenophobic because it plays into their constant message that all 17 million or so British people only voted that way because they hate anyone from other EU countries.Which is rubbish.I have visited France and Italy and Spain hundreds of times and love the countries and the culture, but I don’t want any more EU bureaucrats running the UK.I imagine if they were allowed a referendum, a few other countries would wish to come out as well.

Bambam, you are not very intelligent, are you?
In fact you are stupid.

Copying words again durhamjen tut tut.

Try and be original next time maybe.

dj your post to bambam is a personal attack. What gives you the right to call someone not very intelligent, in fact stupid? If any one is showing their stupidity here, it's you
I've reported your post and asked for it to be removed. Your just slinging insults about and being offensive. Nothing impressive or clever about that.

Then report the post lemongrove,

CK33, it's the same with my Spanish daughter in law, who has lived here for over twenty years.
People make comments about EU citizens going back where they came from. My son says that's my wife you are talking about, and they actually think she has that accent because she teaches Spanish, not because she IS Spanish.
It's the same with my Danish daughter in law, who does not have an accent. People say they will be pleased when all those foreigners have gone back home and are no longer taking their jobs, not realising they are talking about her.
You are right, the atmosphere has changed. People in this country feel freer to insult foreigners. It's quite appalling.

Darnsarf, I was just copying Bambam.
Did you not report her post when she said the same to me?
Why not?

Lemon grove, I agree totally about bureaucracy but I can t see how it has affected Your / Our live anymore than the uk bred
bureaucracy.
Nobody has yet answered the initial question for this forum or my subsequent one: how has the EU had a negative impact on your life ?
If the UK wanted to reform that it should have stayed. You don t reform an institution that caters for 27/28 states in a few months . It takes genuine collaboration and compromise...

ck33
I have to say that imho France is the most beautiful country overal in Europe, and I have visited all of them.
Favourite place: Lac du Bourget in the Jura mountains, heaven. I think if I were French I would never leave, you have it all.

It’s more what the future holds, the EU is heading for a Federal State Of Europe.
We in the UK, in spite of being a big money contributor, were fobbed off with nothing when Cameron was trying his best to get something to prevent a referendum.

Cameron did not have to call a referendum. He'd already come close lost Scotland from the union, a situation saved at the last moment by Gordon Brown coming out of retirement. He seems to be a bear of very little brain.
His little jaunt to Brussels to "renegotiate" was a token gesture. If he was going to negotiate something significant it would have taken a LOT longer. He could have introduced more control on EU immigration if he could have been bothered but he was more concerned about trying to silence the moaning eurosceptics in his own party.

Still, bless him, he did give us the referendum.?

It's nonsense to say that the EU is heading for a Federal State of Europe. 27 (or 28 if we never make it to Brexit) sovereign nations would never agree to it.

The EU is not an autonomous body, it is the sum of the nations which belong to it and decisions made about its future are made by all of them.

I suspect that the reason that Leavers can't tell us any positive benefits of Brexit is because the whole of the Leave campaign was based on negatives and wishful thinking. The most that Leavers can offer is 'hopes'.

Hi Maizie, Was delighted to tell my friend in Spain that her STAY Referendum vote was illegal.
I won't print her reply!
Friendly banter, I hope!
Oh dear! That means Remainers are another vote down!

Having read through this thread I still find that Brexiters only reason for leaving the EU is to stop/control immigration. I haven't seen any other reason put forward except they don't want to be governed by an unelected body. At present we vote for our MEPs so the EU parliament is not an unelected body. The only unelected ruler we have is the sovereign!

We will have to abide by an unelected body’s rule if we wish to join the WTO - I think the Brexiters are dead keen to do that -sunny uplands and all that.

I'm not saying that your friend's vote was illegal, Bambam, I'm asking how she managed to get a vote if she'd been living abroad for more than 15 years.

Of course, instead of leaping in with the silly reply you might have said, perhaps, that she only lives in Spain for part of the year; or she that retains a permanent address in the UK , or something that would explain it.