Well that’s it. We’re not leaving the EU. The people in charge won’t allow it.

That inflammatory language originated in the Daily Mail, Express and Sun and has been repeated, to their shame, by irresponsible politicians, including Theresa May who regarded the editor of the Daily Mail as her speechwriter..

Thirteen of the so-called Tory rebels not only voted with their consciences, but the way their constituents had voted in the referendum.

They're all hanging on to their jobs by the skin of their teeth !!
Not interested in the people of this country.

Has anyone ever watched an old Will Hay film ? Especially where he takes the role of headmaster trying to control the class. BJ is a dead ringer for Will Hay and his antics.

Some of them have deliberately given up their careers as politicians to rebel against their party whip.

I'm actually more concerned about those who have followed the party whip for the sake of their careers, even though they have in the past spoken strongly for an opposing point of view.

Nicky Morgan's name came to mind. She doesn't have a huge majority and her constituency voted almost 50/50 in the referendum. I wouldn't put money on her retaining the seat in a GE, given that she's flipflopped around and was useless Education Secretary.

Antoinette Sandbach's constituency voted Leave in the EU referendum but she voted Remain (she receives EU subsidies no wonder she voted Remain)
Last night she went against her constituents and her Party and voted with Corbyn. Hyprocrite. Good riddance.

Nicky Morgan's constituency voted Leave, there was no 50/50 in the EU referendum it was Leave or Stay.

Thankfully, democracy prevailed last night!

I don’t want an unelected bureaucrat running the country. <aka Dominic Cummings>

Actually Firecracker I am a Lib Dem, but given a choice of Boris the boffin and liar or JC, who can at least give a speech that makes sense instead of mumbling nonsense, I would go for JC.

Barmeyoldbat it figures you support the Undemocratic Lib Dems whose leader Swinson wants a so called Peoples Vote but if leave won would not recognise it. She's the biggest hyprocrite going.

Craicon

Craicon
Don't be fooled, unelected bureaucrats have always been the ones that have run the country. Ministers are just the figure heads who ‘sell’ the policy. Because of changes of governments/cabinets none of the MPs have anything but a passing knowledge of the areas they head.

Not true Craicon. I come from a family of senior civil servants. Politicians are supposed to be in control of policies. They have civil servants to give them information, tell them whether the policies would work, do mathematical models, do research, enforce polices etc etc, but the politicians are in charge - or should be.

You are wrong Firecracker. Nobody won or lost in Nicky Morgan's constituency. The votes were all added together to give a grand total. I was correct in stating that the numbers in Nicky Morgan's constituency were almost 50/50 (in favour of leave). The margin was so small that it was statistically irrelevant. It would only take a handful of people to die, move or turn 18 for the balance to change.

The 50/50 figure should show anybody that a hard line BP candidate would be unlikely to do well.

No Leave won in Nicky Morgan's constituency what part of win and lose don't you understand. You can only have one winner and leave won.

Nicky Morgan and every other MP represents the interests of all his/ her constituents whether or not they voted for them. They represent children / the disabled/ the homeless/ the sick/ everyone and not just their supporters. They are not there just to take orders from the minority of their constituents who voted for them. Some people seem to believe otherwise.

And Uncle Tom Cobbley and All blah blah blah ?

An insightful and erudite contribution to the discussion.

?

??

Stop digging a hole, Firecracker. Referendum votes weren't even counted by constituency, but local authority areas, so none of the figures given is accucrate. 1 or 2% either way is statistically significant.

To get back to your repeating an error...nobody won or lost in any council area or constituency...nobody! Got that, Firecracker?

The only numbers which mattered were those for the whole country. The fact that hey were divided up into smaller areas was more of an administrative convenience than anything else.

Nevertheless, the figures for Nicky Morgan's constituency (and all other constituencies) give an indication of the
feeling at local level.

Get it?

Typo alert - statistically insignificant

Hi. American chiming in once again. I read all 5 pages of posts and wanted to copy and paste the following from Eloethan again. She/he acknowledged the frustrations of those who voted to leave but made some very salient and non-political points that I don't see being addressed by leavers at all.

It sure makes sense to me that 1) something so intricate and complex should have been thought out and explained much more in advance rather than being posed as a simplistic "stay or go vote", and that 2) a deal, in general or a "no deal", in particular would be very problematic and even detrimental to many in a great number of ways and so would, of course, need careful and considered deliberation.

I was just impressed by your measured and thoughtful post Eloethan and was surprised to see no response (hope you don't mind me reposting...). I truly don't understand why those of you who want to leave are not in favor of doing it with intelligent planning and thoughtful consideration of those affected.

From Eloethan Wed 04-Sep-19 10:34:16:

^I can understand why some people would feel the "wishes of the people" are being thwarted by those who can't accept the result of the referendum.

However, I think the point is that the whole process of leaving the EU, the making of new "deals", the Irish issue, etc, etc, were not properly addressed and, in some cases, not addressed at all. Additionally, it was presented as an inevitability that we would secure a good deal with the EU because it would be in both parties' interests and the EU were desperate to establish some sort of trade deal with us.

As the months and years go by, there is more and more evidence that leaving is not the simple process that people like Liam Fox said it would be. There are major concerns about all sorts of issues, including shortages of food and medicine, shortages of labour, the effects on research and development when we are outside of the EU umbrella, the reliance on the US for trade deals and an associated decline in health and safety standards for food, the problems arising with Ireland and Scotland, etc. None of these issues had been properly discussed prior to the referendum - I think both the leave and the remain campaigns were ill thought out and badly presented, relying on people's gut instincts rather than on facts.

As for those who think we are in a strong position as a country to make all these magnificent deals with all these other nations who are straining at the leash to trade with us, I'm wondering where they've been living for the last few years. The situation in this country re health, education, justice, employment, industrial output, housing, etc, etc, is absolutely dire, this government having run all of them into the ground. There is nothing to demonstrate that we have in place a team of competent people who can make good decisions for the country. Virtually every infrastructure project has been mismanaged in terms of cost and benefit and every tightening of the purse strings has caused a decline in many people's physical and mental health and all sorts of associated social problems that have had ongoing costly repercussions. Our government appears incapable of running this country effectively and to imagine that it has the ability to deal with momentous change effectively is very questionable.^

gmarie you have discovered eleothan ?

She is a long standing and respected member of GN whose posts are without fail always thoughtful, intelligent, and respectful.

Nicky Morgan's constituency voted Leave in the EU referendum.

Whichever way you try to twist the result its plain to see unless you are an idiot.