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Are you or friends, children or grand-children or other loved ones- likely to be filed as terrorist?

(65 Posts)
jura2 Wed 22-Jan-20 16:33:09

Under new Rules instigated by the Government via Priti Patel?

GrannyGravy13 Wed 22-Jan-20 16:41:26

No have all just been "security checked" and passed.

vampirequeen Wed 22-Jan-20 16:44:16

As there is no legal definition of extremism, I would imagine that most people would be by default. Technically the government could decide any activity was extremist. Wasn't the climate change group recently 'accidently' put on the list by the police?

jura2 Wed 22-Jan-20 16:49:09

''A slippery slope

But while Hall rightly states that propaganda is a “slippery term”, one of the biggest problems lies in defining terrorism and extremism. Because the way the state uses both is already a slippery slope.

On 17 January, the Guardian published a counter-terrorism document that listed organisations such as Greenpeace, Campaign Against Arms Trade and Animal Aid as extremist threats.

And on 10 January, environmental protest group Extinction Rebellion (XR) hit the headlines after its inclusion in a counter-terror policing document for safeguarding young and vulnerable people.

Although Patel accepted XR wasn’t a terrorist group, she defended its inclusion, stating it was “based in terms of risk to the public, security risks, security threats”. But while the liberal establishment is shocked and ‘scared’ by her defence, anyone with even a passing knowledge of protest policing will tell you this isn’t anything new.

Writing about XR in 2018, I warned:

we’re living at a time when authorities view any disruptive protest as domestic extremism and police it with counter-terrorism strategy.

Those protesting fracking have regularly been presented as extremists in Prevent counter-terrorism training. And in September 2019, the Guardian reported that a retired doctor was reported to Prevent over his involvement in XR.
Blurring the boundaries

I’m not arguing that if this legislation is enacted, people will immediately be prosecuted for having the XR logo or having photos of people blocking bridges. But it is a warning of how the boundaries can be blurred.

And it’s not like those boundaries haven’t been blurred before. For example, when the controversial S44 terrorism search powers were introduced that gave police blanket powers to stop anyone without needing reasonable suspicion. This was despite promises they wouldn’t be used on protesters.

But the reality was somewhat different. They were both used frequently and as a means of harassment and intelligence gathering on protests. In fact, they only stopped after two people took the case to the European Court of Human Rights.

Meanwhile, in 2018, 15 people were convicted of a terrorism-related offence for a peaceful protest that prevented a deportation flight taking off. The original offence was introduced in the wake of the Lockerbie bomb.''

GrannyGravy13 Wed 22-Jan-20 16:49:18

The Security Services have to get surveillance and arrests right every time and investigate every lead and suspicious activity/activist to keep the UK and its inhabitants safe.

A terrorist only needs one chance to cause Mayhem, Murder and endless heartache for those injured or bereaved.

I know which "Rules"I would rather have.

suziewoozie Wed 22-Jan-20 17:03:17

GG the issue here is related to the Prevent strategy

GrannyGravy13 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:06:57

Suziewoozie As stated in my first paragraph, better to be safe than sorry as far as I am concerned.

suziewoozie Wed 22-Jan-20 17:10:38

Completely missing the point GG.Although maybe you think any form of protest or opposition to the government should always be labelled terroism......Unless it’s a left wing government of course and then it would be fine

GrannyGravy13 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:13:21

Suziewoozie I am not missing the point at all.

All organisations are open to infiltration, XR, Greepeace or any others.

jura2 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:13:30

So anyone with differing views from those of the Conservative Government, be they Vegan, or against live transport of animals with long distance travel abroad, or concerned about fracking, or an airport expansion, or the privatisation of the NHS, etc, etc, etc, etc - deserves to be put on a terrorist register which will prevent them from getting jobs, especially in some professions, and could lead to prosecutions.

Very reminiscent of the Stasi in East Germany - and other dictatorships.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:16:16

Jura2 If someone has done something to warrant being put on the list so be it.

I do not think being vegan is going to be top of the Security Services investigations, but hey ho.

GagaJo Wed 22-Jan-20 17:19:06

So much for freedom of speech. Not allowed to protest things we think are morally wrong.

Just as well Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther king and Ghanaia didn't take that perspective.

Not every law is just.

GagaJo Wed 22-Jan-20 17:19:27


Opal Wed 22-Jan-20 17:26:20

I seem to remember on the original thread, a poster mentioned a group of Extinction Rebellion protestors stopped an ambulance taking a premature baby to a baby unit, which was a matter of life and death. If these idiots are going to protest to the point where they are endangering the lives of others, then yes they are terrorists and should be "put on the list". Jura2 I wonder if that was your baby in the ambulance, whether you would be defending them in the same way.

Urmstongran Wed 22-Jan-20 17:27:57

I think Priti Patel has judged the mood well of many in the U.K. I think she’ll be a good Home Secretary.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:31:34

This is not stopping protests, or inhibiting free speech.

It is the Security Services trying to stay one step ahead of terrorists, organised criminals and those wishing to target businesses and government with cyber attacks.

Couldn't care less if it was done by a Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem Government, anything that keeps UK safe is a good thing.

lemongrove Wed 22-Jan-20 17:34:39

jura you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this subject, constantly saying we are in a dictatorship.We aren’t.
Greenpeace and Ext Rebell are labelled as protest groups, but if any go too far they need pulling up hard and fast.
Stopping emergency ambulances getting through to hospital would be an own goal for them, but if they are stupid enough to do that ( and cruel enough ) they need pouncing on.

vegansrock Wed 22-Jan-20 17:35:59

The aim of ER is peaceful protest and civil disobedience. They do not “terrorise” in the same way as suicide bombers or knife wielding extremists. I am sad that anyone would put them and the likes of Greenpeace in the same bracket. Peaceful protest has always been something we have tolerated and , indeed protected. Now it looks like anyone whose views you don’t like you can label as a terrorist. I’ll no doubt be carted off soon.

lemongrove Wed 22-Jan-20 17:42:12

Why vegansrock ? Are you pelting passers by with Greggs vegan sausage rolls?

jura2 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:43:10

Only bees I've got is in my wildlife garden, and I hate bonnets, or any hats come to that.

Remember when Apartheid was legal
When slavery was legal?
When women did not have the vote? (and yes, women did not have the vote in Switzerland when I moved to London- but they did in my Canton)
When racism and prejudices of all kinds were legal?
etc, etc, etc.

A country that attempts to stop all dissent and any opposition by putting activists on terrorism register- is a dictatorship - by definition.

I strongly believe that to stop an ambulance was wrong, 100% or any of the emergency services.

Opal Wed 22-Jan-20 17:49:24

We are not trying to stop all dissent and opposition, just earmarking the idiots that may endanger the lives of others. Enough of the hysteria, we do NOT live in a dictatorship angry.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:53:41

Blimey, UK a Dictatorship, laughable.

jura2 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:55:51

Not yet ...

jura2 Wed 22-Jan-20 17:56:31

Opal, who is the 'we' - are you part of the Government and Priti Patel's department?

Callistemon Wed 22-Jan-20 18:00:24


Most activist groups, including those with the most altruistic motives, can be infiltrated by those with ulterior motives to cause maximum disruption and anarchy.