What I think will happen tomorrow

sunseeker

I think the "working class" have changed but the Labour party hasn't. It still treats everyone as if they are working in mills and coal mines, are uneducated and unable to think for themselves. The majority of the electorate understand more than the Labour party give them credit for.

They want to be allowed to improve their lives and the lives of their families - like it or not whilst they support equality they are not impressed by politicians "taking the knee".

I agree.

growstuff

Theoddbird

Conservatives have won a labour seat of many many years. They have also upted their council seats. Says a lot does that.

What exactly do you think it says?

What kind of MP (of any political party) would improve the lives of the majority in Hartlepool?

A Conservative one - namely Jill Mortimer.

The Labour party has lost ground simply because they don't listen to the voters. I know many former Labour voters who say they no longer recognise the party as representing the workers. They disliked Corbyn's extreme views and think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street.

Even with Covid the Tory's have started well in the NE since the 2019 election:

Delivered Brexit.

The new Treasury office at Darlington.

Freeport on Teeside.

Sometimes you wish for FPTP...

(joke)

They .........think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street.
And that’s the problem with identity politics isn’t it - the idea that the interests of a particular group are more important than the interests of society as a whole, and that unless a politician identifies with a group, they can’t possibly understand the group’s situation or be trusted to further anyone’s interests except their own group’s.

I too want my politicians to be intelligent but I’d also like them to have the breadth of vision that serves & unifies the whole country.

Well. - According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning Labour lost because they were not Left wing enough.

So, erm, that's why the good people of Hartlepool voted for a more Right wing party?

You couldn’t make this stuff up.

Oldwoman70

The Labour party has lost ground simply because they don't listen to the voters. I know many former Labour voters who say they no longer recognise the party as representing the workers. They disliked Corbyn's extreme views and think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street.

I don't think Labour not listening to voters is found in just the LP. The Tories listen, in small rooms with small numbers, to voters and then repeat back to the voter what they have heard so they appear to be "like us". However, I have yet to see a Tory government which has improved life for all or even those they mimic. One day, fairly soon I hope, they will be found out by those who are currently not bothering to think things through.

janeainsworth

^They .........think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street^.
And that’s the problem with identity politics isn’t it - the idea that the interests of a particular group are more important than the interests of society as a whole, and that unless a politician identifies with a group, they can’t possibly understand the group’s situation or be trusted to further anyone’s interests except their own group’s.

I too want my politicians to be intelligent but I’d also like them to have the breadth of vision that serves & unifies the whole country.

But where do politicians get breadth of vision from? And isn’t wanting to serve snd unify the whole country a particular political perspective and not a generalised political aim? These are genuine questions I don’t know the answers to. But then maybe it’s all about having the right team so that the collective experience gives a broad vision? That’s why I guess it’s dangerous to have too much emphasis on the PM as embodying everything. From in-depth anslyses I’ve read, both Attlee and Wilson were experts at using the experiences and knowledge of others and drawing it altogether. Some of the best teams I’ve worked in have been led by quiet unassuming ( on the surface) people who were brilliant at drawing the best out of everyone in the team - it was never ‘all about them’. They inspired loyalty and hard work and respect across the board. Our increasingly football teams political system seems to prevent all this . There’s no serious cross part working apart from some good stuff from select committees.

Urmstongran

According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning

You couldn’t make this stuff up

Diane Abbott can make anything up, especially if it involves basic arithmetic ?

But she's right Urmstongran in 2017 with socialist policies the LP did better. Of course there is the Brexit vote which is a huge factor, but socialist Labour with a union official standing as MP did better than 2021
Possibly some Labour voters stayed home and some chose Tory because they want a share of the wealth.

tickingbird

Urmstongran

According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning

You couldn’t make this stuff up

Diane Abbott can make anything up, especially if it involves basic arithmetic ?

FGS - really? Really ? Really ?Really ?

Diane Abbott seems to have forgotten the Labour Party lost two general elections because voters didn’t want the country run by the left.

suzie I agree with you, I think the breadth of vision comes from education in its broadest sense & a good leader listens to, as well as draws on the strengths of the team, rather than developing a cult of personal celebrity.

But Labour - If you only represent minority groups how can you expect support from the majority?

I still maintain that Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner taking the knee in his office badly weakened their appeal for the majority of voters.

tickingbird

Urmstongran

According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning

You couldn’t make this stuff up

Diane Abbott can make anything up, especially if it involves basic arithmetic ?

All this personality politics leads directly to right-wing nationalism. Mind you I begin to think more people want that than I would originally have believed.

Unless they are doing something illegal it's the policies that matter and how they will achieve a fair society but then, more than I would have originally have thought don't want that either do they?

Suziewoozie

FGS - really? Really ? Really ?Really?

You bet really. Every word!

Stop pushing policies that only appeal to woke, Marxist activists....

Ditch the lunatics like Dawn (babies are born without sex) Butler and stop jumping on every divisive, virtue signalling bandwagon that passes by.

That’ll be a start Labour. Until then it’s a spell in the political wilderness.

Anniebach

Diane Abbott seems to have forgotten the Labour Party lost two general elections because voters didn’t want the country run by the left.

I think that’s a perfectly valid and reasonable opinion to hold. A good example of how to criticise a politician without resorting to cheap jibes.

Urmstongran

Stop pushing policies that only appeal to woke, Marxist activists....

Ditch the lunatics like Dawn (babies are born without sex) Butler and stop jumping on every divisive, virtue signalling bandwagon that passes by.

That’ll be a start Labour. Until then it’s a spell in the political wilderness.

It really is all about personalities and cultures isn't it Urmstongran. You simply dont care about policies. This is not intended as rude but do you really want a far-right government because this is where this lack of vision will take us.

Why are you telling Labour what to do. It seems very clear you have absolutely no interest in them winning?

It all seems a very "Love Island" view of life.

janeainsworth

suzie I agree with you, I think the breadth of vision comes from education in its broadest sense & a good leader listens to, as well as draws on the strengths of the team, rather than developing a cult of personal celebrity.

And somewhere in the mix has to come the thorny issue of leading in a direction that is ‘right’ but not necessarily ‘popular’. There are many examples of socially liberal policies that had they been put to a referendum would not have been approved - or at least not without hard work beforehand. I still think how the Irish Government handled the abortion referendum was a master class in moving a country forward by taking them with you whilst having the political vision and courage that the change had to happen.

Why are you telling Labour what to do. It seems very clear you have absolutely no interest in them winning?

I think Labour would be in with half a shout if they dumped the workery. It only appeals to a minority. That’s why the majority don’t vote for them at present.

Urmstongran

Well. - According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning Labour lost because they were not Left wing enough.

So, erm, that's why the good people of Hartlepool voted for a more Right wing party?

You couldn’t make this stuff up.

I said the same as you Anniebach really.
Not that sw would ever give me credit!

Urmstongran

^Why are you telling Labour what to do. It seems very clear you have absolutely no interest in them winning?^

I think Labour would be in with half a shout if they dumped the workery. It only appeals to a minority. That’s why the majority don’t vote for them at present.

As I have been saying you (and others) followed the cult of Brexit - no policies to be seen but lots of jargon that means nothing and now you are following the cult of Boris. Again no policies and lots of catch phrases that mean nothing - just as "wokery" means nothing to most people.

What exactly do you want people - it is not "the Labour Party" after all although it pleases you to tar them with it - to do?

PippaZ

Urmstongran

Why are you telling Labour what to do. It seems very clear you have absolutely no interest in them winning?

I think Labour would be in with half a shout if they dumped the workery. It only appeals to a minority. That’s why the majority don’t vote for them at present.

As I have been saying you (and others) followed the cult of Brexit - no policies to be seen but lots of jargon that means nothing and now you are following the cult of Boris. Again no policies and lots of catch phrases that mean nothing - just as "wokery" means nothing to most people.

What exactly do you want people - it is not "the Labour Party" after all although it pleases you to tar them with it - to do?

Maybe it might be a good idea if the Labour Party actually listened to what the men/women on the street are actually saying, what they care about and what they worry about as opposed to what the Labour Party and its activists think they should worry and care about?