Braverman's behaviour in parliament today proves nothing has changed.

Roger Gale has been a welcome voice as a ‘Tory grandee’, honest enough to challenge the way his party is mismanaging this dreadful situation.
There is a difference between people fleeing war, famine or torture and the few who are involved in criminal gangs. It’s surely not impossible to make decisions early and ensure women, children and families are kept safe.

Maybe someone knows the numbers better than me, but isn't the reason that more people are using the dinghies is that other legal routes of arrival have been blocked by the government?

Urmstongran

But MaizieD surely when there were less thousands of migrants arriving daily in their rubber dinghies (the sizes of which have grown exponentially to accommodate the demand) it was easier back in the day to deal with all the necessary paperwork and checks? Now the numbers have increased (verified by numerous sources if you Google) the very least we need is so many more personnel to deal with their applications.

This whole situation is a shambles. The Times article confirms this situation is costing the UK taxpayers £7 million a DAY Lucca.

This cannot and should not be thought an acceptable way of spending our money. I’m horrified by the gross sums of money involved especially as Sunak announces today big increases in taxation is planned.

Quite honestly, I think your post displays the lack of joined up thinking and willingness to be manipulated that seems to have informed your Leave vote, Ug.

I'll leave others to put you right because it's too early in the morning for me to get anything but grumpy... (I am most definitely not a morning person)

An taxation doesn't fund spending...

There is a very interesting thread on Mumsnet in which an immigration barrister is inviting people to "Ask Me Anything". www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4666822-im-an-immigration-lawyer-ama?page=2&reply=121161224

One of the things that is clear is that we are not being invaded, but in fact taking fewer refugees per 100,000 head of population than many other countries. She also explains why many choose to come to UK, and the ability to speak some English is high on that list.

I am sickened by Braverman who is the child of two immigrants and benefitted enormously from our kindness and generosity. Not only that, she is a Buddhist for goodness sake - where are the kindness and gentleness that we associate with that particular religion?

Sunak did a dirty deal with her to get his top job and his premiership will forever be tainted by this.

This government is shameful.

Urmstongran

Would those on here be willing to accept there are ‘economic migrants’? Not all these men are fleeing war torn countries! That much we do know. Many Albanian men are coming over here to pursue nefarious lifestyle choices as has been verified by UK Border Force officials.

Yes I am willing to accept that approx 10% of those arriving on our shores are economic migrants. And will be returned from whence they came.

However your chosen language of “many Albanian men” “ nefarious lifestyles” and “all these men” bears no relationship to reality.

That is where you are allowing the rhetoric of people like Braverman to influence your thinking, rather than thinking more critically.

Whitewavemark2

There is neither “illegal immigrants” nor is there an invasion.

What there is, -

People fleeing from war, famine and torture and arriving on our shores BY WHICHEVER ROUTE seeking asylum under the UN 1967 protocol, which all countries are signed up to.
It is an international agreement and law.

These people are legally entitled to seek asylum in their chosen country, which in this case happens to be the U.K.

Now if the government had acted with intelligence and empathy, it would have taken control of the situation from the beginning, instead of all the “othering” and nonsense rhetoric aimed at the unthinking.

Set up centres as offered by France and in France, providing sufficient staff etc.
Ensure all that asylum seekers who arrive on our shores by any other route are swiftly and sensibly appraised, giving sanctuary to refugees and returning those simply migrating for economic purposes, - although remember that is exactly why most of the those in the government of immigrant parentage arrived in the U.K.

None of this has happened and as a result the Tories are doing what they do best which is to waste tax payers money by forking out for hotel bills plus payments etc to the asylum seekers.

It is incompetence purely and simply.

However much those amongst us want all immigration to cease

It won’t. - ever. In fact it will almost certainly increase as war and climate change continues its ceaseless onslaught on the human race.

Unless we, as a country face this fact we will continue with the lies, rhetoric, and division alongside the appalling treatment of human beings, and never get control.

Exactly my opinion too. Well said WWM2.

Wow Lucky, she claims to be a Buddhist? I didn't know that.
What a mess.

Luckygirl3

There is a very interesting thread on Mumsnet in which an immigration barrister is inviting people to "Ask Me Anything". www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4666822-im-an-immigration-lawyer-ama?page=2&reply=121161224

One of the things that is clear is that we are not being invaded, but in fact taking fewer refugees per 100,000 head of population than many other countries. She also explains why many choose to come to UK, and the ability to speak some English is high on that list.

I am sickened by Braverman who is the child of two immigrants and benefitted enormously from our kindness and generosity. Not only that, she is a Buddhist for goodness sake - where are the kindness and gentleness that we associate with that particular religion?

Sunak did a dirty deal with her to get his top job and his premiership will forever be tainted by this.

This government is shameful.

Thank you for your eloquence all above.

This is what sticks out, "One of the things that is clear is that we are not being invaded, but in fact taking fewer refugees per 100,000 head of population than many other countries. She also explains why many choose to come to UK, and the ability to speak some English is high on that list.

appalled by the word invasion

frankly its fascist to my mind

echoes what was said by dictators in the past

appeals to the worse in human nature, whips up fear.

If we process people faster, then the undoubted number of economic migrants inevitably in the mix can be better sorted out!

We left the EU as we were assured (ha ha) it would tackle "immigration", its made no difference, and the only way forward is to deal with it as an international situation not little fortress UK trying to "ward off" those we are encouraged to fear.

anode course we have to tackle the gangs internationally, again, with a "work with" not "fortress UK" POV.

Yes, excellent post Lucky.

As for Buddhism and Braverman:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/15/new-attorney-general-suella-braverman-in-controversial-buddhist-sect

Oh dear - she is obviously attracted to secret societies and minority sects.

Economic migrants might not fit into the categories of people whom we are legally obliged to welcome, but I do not think they should be painted as criminals. Many Brits went to the US for just that reason - they were simply doing what they saw as best for their families.

She is a disgrace of a Home Secretary. Her rhetoric is inflammatory and will contribute to violence against refugees. Sunak should sack Braverman now and move on.

Certainly my family and OH's, for many generations, have been economic migrants. Who contributed massively to their host countries. Some of them didn't come by choice, they were slaves from Bengal, Africa and Indonesia.

Of course a proportion are economic migrants. And gangs with 'nefarious' activities need to be identified and returned.

When we talk about private education, private health care, etc- many here say it is normal and correct for people to put their own first, and do the best for them. If I lived in a country where I knew my children had no chance of a good education, or good healthcare, or decent chances for the future- I'd hope I would up and go, and try to give them the above. In the Olde days, Tebbut (sp), not that long ago said 'get on your bike' - and now people get on boats.

Thanks for the link lucky. I’m waiting for the govt supporters to arrive, accusing this eminent lawyer of being a tofu eating leftie

I am neither a government supporter and will not call the eminent lawyer names, it has to be said that there are many thousands more migrants arriving here in small boats than in previous years.The numbers are very high, and I understand that for some, the draw of speaking English, the business language of the world is important.Also the figures given now show that Albanians make up the highest percentage of numbers.Not a war torn country.So much is true that other posters such as Urmstongran say.
We may not take as many migrants as other countries do for two reasons, it is hard to get here and as we are a much smaller country than many others, cannot accommodate all.
Having said that it is high time now that the government act swiftly and provide living accommodation by either building or renovating buildings for them, whilst also providing better salaries to attract good staff to complete the work needed to assess their cases.

Having said that it is high time now that the government act swiftly and provide living accommodation by either building or renovating buildings for them, whilst also providing better salaries to attract good staff to complete the work needed to assess their cases.

You won't get any action from a tory government. They have made immigration a key issue for nearly a decade now, and not in a good way. Remember Theresa May's 'Go Home' vans?

The solutions to this problem set out by Yvette Cooper yesterday in parliament are obvious.

Accept the French offer to set up a processing point at Calais, set up a special NCA (National Crime Agency) body to deal with the smuggling gangs and improve Home Office efficiency to deal with applications in a more timely manner and rapidly return the economic migrants to their home countries, where they can apply for visas in the proper manner.

The first was rejected because the Brexit government wanted nothing to do with the Eu, the others would involve expanding state departments when the tory's objective is to shrink the state. Regardless of the fact that the state is spending large amounts of money on rescuing the small boat people and housing them for long periods while their applications are very slowly dealt with and they are unable to seek work to support themselves.

But, as I said earlier, the current cruel and racist tory immigration policy speaks to some of their core voters who they don't want to lose.

Yvette Cooper:

twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1587227969709383680

I have said previously that I am more than happy for the U.K. to be a safe refuge for those fleeing war and oppression. These people should be treated with dignity, assessed swiftly and allowed to work in a profession suited to their skills and command of English.

Economic migrants should be able to apply in their own Country at the U.K. Embassy (or similar) for a working visa providing they have a job to come to or a sponsor who will be responsible for them. Along with proof of financial status and the understanding that there will be a time limit before they can access for free the NHS and/or the benefits system.

Whatever Government is in overall control as a Country we cannot continue as we are now, how many lives need to be lost in the channel for something to be done?

👀. Surprise! Surprise!

Chris Bryant
·
3h
I strongly suspect that Suella Braverman wasn’t telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yesterday. Former ministers and colleagues deny her account of events.

👀

James Oh Brien

This deliberate & inciteful hatred of humans, in this case refugees, is all they've got. It's all they've ever had. It's how Brexit happened. It's how Gullis ended up in Parliament & Braverman in the Cabinet. It's disgusting & wrong & the next shameful chapter has barely started.

It’s also a case of ‘hey, look the other way’. Whilst appalling and inciting language occupies some of the public other measures may be put through that is not in the interests of us all.

Wyllow3

It’s also a case of ‘hey, look the other way’. Whilst appalling and inciting language occupies some of the public other measures may be put through that is not in the interests of us all.

I'm kind of hoping that this government falls apart before they can do too much damage, Wyllow3

I think it's looking a bit rocky...

I hate to say this, but this all comes back to Brexit.

In 2019 there were 1,843 refugee channel crossings by people seeking to be safe, with no torture, no discrimination and not left in poverty. Not you would think, a lot to ask. I would certainly want it for myself and my family. So far, in 2022, the number is 39,430.

Those who voted to leave the EU, believing those who told them it would stop all these crossings, were lied to. They knew this. We keep being told they knew what they were voting for.

As an EU member, we had control of immigration. We were part of a system where asylum seekers, who were successful applicants, would be shared out across the EU countries (Dublin Agreement). We decided to leave. It was a decision to go it alone. In rude, aggressive and unfriendly terms we told the EU states that's what we wanted. Our government told them. Our newspapers told them. Some of the population told them. The leave voters thought this was okay because they knew what they were voting for.

The government could stop these crossings - if it wanted to. We could do it cheaper than the mindless suggestions the right wing has come out with.

We know because the racists keep telling us, that they have no problem with genuine refugees. So, as I have now said many times, all we need to do is build a processing facility in France. The French have said they will work with us on this. Those seeking asylum would go there; British officials would process their claim. Anyone entering the country without being processed would be taken back to the centre. If their claim is valid they could come across more safely than in a little rubber boat.

We would be taking more than we did as we are out of the sharing system but those voting leave, often the same people as those complaining about asylum seekers, knew what they were doing when they voted. They knew we would not be part of the Dublin Agreement sharing system. They told us they knew. So they must have known what would happen and what we could now do if this far-right government chose to do so.

I agree DaisyAnne but I'm afraid this brexit govrnment will never do anything that requires co-operation with France.

Can you imagine such a sensible, practical and humane solution ever being supported by The Daily Mail?

Whitewavemark2

👀

James Oh Brien

This deliberate & inciteful hatred of humans, in this case refugees, is all they've got. It's all they've ever had. It's how Brexit happened. It's how Gullis ended up in Parliament & Braverman in the Cabinet. It's disgusting & wrong & the next shameful chapter has barely started.

He is right. It is all they have to deflect from having done nothing positive in the last 12 years.

My dread, my nightmare, is that we see the day when this antagonism towards a definable group is added to by a law making them wear something that identifies them. Then we will know we have hit the rock bottom we are so close to.

Good posts DaisyAnne, but I suspect, as you do, that the truth about Brexit and its impact will not be accepted by its fans. Frankly, anyone who chose to shut their ears to what was being said, to dismiss 'so called experts' to condemn any alternative point as 'project fear' is unlikely to acknowledge that yet again, the country is being lied to misled, or gaslit over the immigration issue.

The NCA is working with eu countries.

www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/albanian-people-smuggling-network-who-shipped-migrants-to-the-uk-from-spain-dismantled