Transwomen take all three medals in 'women's' cycling championship.

"What about trans men?" Ẃell ! we barely hear anything from them do we? the odd whisper as opposed to the overwhelming noisy demands from the trans women sorority fraternity, why is that I wonder? Why don't trans men appear not to have any interest in partaking in male sporting events, could it possibly be that they know how futile that would be

We women must stop hoarding our privileges says David Lammy, whatever they are Those that do are like dinosaurs allegedly! I suppose he means the Cisasauras, a weaker species, who in trying to assert themselves, got trampled underfoot by the dominant and much larger Entitledadon renowned for it's beefy body and overly muscly hind quarters, which it used to great effect when it kicked the feebler Cisasauras out of its way and trampled it under foot.

Perhaps it has already been said that this competition has teams of two. Only one in each medal winning team is said to be a trans woman so I am assuming that the other team member is happy to go along with this because it gives her an unfair advantage. However, she may well find herself not being picked for the next race if two trans women want to team up.

I didn’t know the first part of this till today.
It’s not my quote, but it’s a good one.

A woman who thinks trans-identified sex offenders should be in ‘the prison of their choosing’ was hardly going to balk at males in women’s sport, was she? @lisanandy told us loudly and proudly who she was pre-election. She’s one of the main reasons I couldn’t vote Labour

What a crazy world we live in now. Absolutely ridiculous!!!!

My blood just boils over when I come across anything to do with Lia Thomas yet again winning another swimming contest, competing against 15 year old girls. He/she/it is over 6 foot with shoulders as wide as a farm gate, for goodness sake!
When he/she/it competed solely in the male categories he/she/it ranked way, way down on the ultra-mediocre scale. Then, he/she/it just decided "hey - I'm really a woman!" and barged into the female categories. Whaddyaknow? He/she/it suddenly started winning everything.
Disgusting and disgraceful.

Mollygo

I didn’t know the first part of this till today.
It’s not my quote, but it’s a good one.

^A woman who thinks trans-identified sex offenders should be in ‘the prison of their choosing’ was hardly going to balk at males in women’s sport, was she? @lisanandy told us loudly and proudly who she was pre-election. She’s one of the main reasons I couldn’t vote Labour^

I don't think that governments have jurisdiction over international sporting authorities.

If the FA, or the Athletics Association (or whatever) don't have rules banning males from female sport, I don't think that a government can over-rule them. I may be wrong, but I think they make their own rules, so even if the UK government could ban British athletes from cheating in this way, the international bodies would just carry on without us. When SA athletes were banned from representing their country during Apartheid, the games still went ahead. They would go ahead without UK athletes if our government somehow barred them from going - what else do you think Lisa Nandy should do?

It would take more than one government to take action for an impact to be made, and it's definitely not a party political issue. The Tories could do nothing, and the government can't do anything either.

What the government can (and IMO should) do is legislate to ensure that women have single sex spaces, that public bodies differentiate according to sex, that there is no obligation on employees (or anyone else) to compulsorily validate trans ideology by declaring pronouns and so on. They have already banned the use of puberty blockers - give them time. We've had 14 years of inaction during which all of this has built up, and it can't be overturned overnight.

They may be powerless Doodledog but the government should speak out against it.

Smileless2012

They may be powerless Doodledog but the government should speak out against it.

Exactly Smileless2012
If no one speaks out about it then nothing will change.
*If you don’t condemn wrongdoing, you condone it and evidently Nandy, who Starmer chose to represent his government view, does that.
She, on his behalf, chose to say something about it but chose not to say that males taking female awards is wrong.

nanna8

It’s ridiculous. Oppression of women and it is just meekly accepted. Why don’t they have special trans events, that would be fair?

because it is deliberate imo

I think you’re right Doodledog. There could be legislation that would make it obligatory for any institution (cafe, restaurant, shops, theatres, swimming pools etc) to provide single sex, safe spaces for women and girls. If they wanted to go on to provide a unisex space (which many do already because they provide a disability/baby change facility) then that would be their decision. I also think that it should be mandatory to provide single sex wards in hospitals. Trans women could have a single room. Too many women have been raped in hospitals by intact trans women. One woman is too many in my opinion. Imagine the horror of finding an intact male raping you in hospital. Government of any colour could have and should legislate for this.

maddyone
it’s not just the horror of rape of female patients by intact TW, but the intimidation by TW of females in mental health wards, some of whom are there because of domestic abuse, where the TW flaunting their body parts and thrusting themselves on patients adds to the females’ trauma.

I hope we’ve moved on from one such event that I’m referring to, where the nursing staff were afraid to do anything and the females were told they were transphobic and threatened with removal from the hospital.

The legislation you mention could be used as a foundation for saying that males should not be taking female spaces and awards in sport.
But until those at the forefront of a country ie the government, are willing to stand up and support women instead of, as we saw today, supporting those TW intent in cheating, we are unlikely to stop the wrongdoing.

It’s not clear to me what Nandy is saying that differs from the official Labour line as expressed by `Starmer. On 11.03.24 he backed the ban on transgender athletes in female sports. The telegraph article is behind a pay wall. Lisa Nandy appears to say individual sports should decide.
On one level it’s simple to simpletons like me. Any individual who passed through puberty as a male is a male so far as biology strength etc concerned. The should compete in a trans category, not against women or girls

Surely it should be for the governing body of each sport or competition to set the rules re whether transwomen are eligible to compete or not?

Obviously someone who is six foot seven and went through puberty as a male would have an unfair advantage in weightlifting, but perhaps not in ice dancing.

you cannot see male genitals through cycling shorts. Male and female wear special shorts which have chunky pads in the crotch area and they show as a `bump` even mine look like that

I too think it is outrageous that trans are allowed to compete with real women

On other other hand a dainty transman who went through puberty as a female might have an unfair advantage in ice dancing, but not in weightlifting.

Nandy is passing the buck Iam. Saying that individual sports should decide is not supporting a ban on trans women competing against biological women.

Labour needs to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

I’m not dodging this but - is it up to governments or individual sporting bodies? Genuine question. I don’t know enough about the legal framework. I’ll do some research and write to my new Labour MP

If a male who declares he identifies as a woman is allowed to compete in the female category why should any male who wants to compete be barred? Why do they have to declare an 'inner identity' to qualify. Women's sport categories are there to give women a chance of success. Some sports, notably equestrian ones, have always been open category with men and women competing against each other. I wonder how many transwomen participate in these events.......

Iam64

I’m not dodging this but - is it up to governments or individual sporting bodies? Genuine question. I don’t know enough about the legal framework. I’ll do some research and write to my new Labour MP

It may be up to individual sporting bodies rather than governments, but that shouldn’t stop individual governments standing up and saying that it is wrong to allow people whose male sex makes their bodies better equipped to succeed against females in female competitions.

To find that our government via Nandy is not only not condemning males taking female awards, but by refusing to do so, is condoning it is appalling, though not unexpected given Starmer’s earlier views. ,

Equally strange that males are allowed to take drugs to suppress the testosterone but athletes are not allowed to take drugs to enhance their testosterone.

Starmer on 11.03.24 backs ban on transgender athletes in female competition, ‘common sense has to prevail’.
Labour leader says he supports governing bodies’ actions to ban transgender women having previously refused to take a position on the issue’. (Telegraph).
Is Nandy condoning it.
I’m an old 70’s feminist. I loathe the violent aggressive men in frocks who threaten us in so many ways. I want to know more about Nandy’s position before I dismiss her.

Starmer Talked the talk-but does nothing about it. We’ve had 24 years of that sort of government and evidently it will continue.

At first in sport if you had female bits you raced as a female. Then women women realised they could boast their Testosterone and develop muscles like a man so they changed the rule that you had to have female Testosterone level. This worked well till some men realised they could take drugs and reduce their Testosterone level to that of a female and race as a female. That would be OK apart from the fact they had grown up with male Testosterone levels and had therefore developed male muscles which gave them an advantage. The next rule change will probably be that you have to have female bits and female Testosterone. That will work for a time and then some young girls will start raising their Testosterone levels so they develop male muscles and reduce the Testosterone when they start to compete. There of course a few women born female who have naturally high Testosterone and can not compete as female. When it comes to sport defining what is male and female is not as easy as it looks.

Smileless2012

Nandy is passing the buck Iam. Saying that individual sports should decide is not supporting a ban on trans women competing against biological women.

Labour needs to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Is that what she said? I said it, but I wasn't quoting LN. Have you got a link to something that shows what powers the government has in this regard? I am not certain, but I believe that it really is down to the sports authorities to make the rules, not the government.

What I do know is that the government has been in power for less than a month, and they have one hell of a hill to climb just to undo some of the mess left by the Tories. I have not changed my opinion on any of this, and I am as impatient as anyone else to see progress; but sniping about what the government has and hasn't done in a month is pointless - the last lot did nothing in 14 years - and when the government is being accused of inaction on something it can't control it is very frustrating. It is also likely to get in the way of making any progress. Moaning about LN instead of complaining to the sports bodies is just giving the TRAs more time to dig in further.

Mollygo

Starmer Talked the talk-but does nothing about it. We’ve had 24 years of that sort of government and evidently it will continue.

Can you link us up to anything that Sunak, Johnson or any of the Tory cabinet did that wasn't 'talking the talk', please? And/or to any evidence that their lackadaisical approach will continue?

There is evidence that the Tories sat back and allowed drag queens into schools, allowed children to be given puberty blockers, NHS leaflets to talk about 'people who menstruate' and 'cervix havers', allow males onto female wards and into women's prisons, bowed to pressure from Stonewall to make people declare pronouns etc etc. They had 14 years to rein it all in, but they didn't. Now the new government has to deal with what is in front of it.

I would very much prefer to leave party politics out of the discussion, but if it keeps coming up the evidence is all there.

Mollygo Today @ 12:42

Passing the buck and making excuses wasn’t acceptable for Conservatives to do. It isn’t acceptable for Labour to do either.