Riots in Southport

So I cannot recall where I read that he was known to have mh issues. Nevertheless, because of swirling conjecture surrounding the case, it may well be just that a supposition and not conclusiv. Possibly conflated with other attacks, Nottingham for instance and others where the perpetrators have been known to present a threat.

The mummy of the murdered little girl with auburn hair has asked for the violence to stop. She and the people of Southport really don't need this.

It's dreadful.
They need to be left in peace to grieve.

We all want answers of course, but I doubt that anyone will ever understand why.

I wonder if anybody ever really understands what motivates serial killers.

I think the point being missed by many of you is the deliberate refusal by the police to identify the victims as girls. Only as children. It’s almost as though the report just over a week ago which noted that violence against women and girls had risen by 40% and what were the police going to do about it? that not calling them girls could be a start. It was a deliberate management of facts which would have changed headlines, when it was obvious that they were all little girls and their women teachers.
They were Taylor Swift fans, little Swifties adoring a star who celebrates girls empowerment. Like the Ariana Grande event this was very special to them, a big treat for them. This we know, the fact was obvious and hidden.. they weren't random children playing as was implied. It was a very specific target and we want to know why. Was it because they were scared of misgendering? Saying the perpetrator was a Welsh boy didn’t help either. The police have found themselves in an impossible position and are suffering dreadfully for it.
This is surely a forum where we can dare think about these things. We are not children.

TerriBull

So I cannot recall where I read that he was known to have mh issues. Nevertheless, because of swirling conjecture surrounding the case, it may well be just that a supposition and not conclusiv. Possibly conflated with other attacks, Nottingham for instance and others where the perpetrators have been known to present a threat.

I think it could have been. Some dodgy "news site" originating in America published an article allegedly naming him and claiming he had mental health issues which were known about. All sorts of people picked it up (which is why a thread on GN was deleted). The article also claimed that he had arrived on a boat last year. It was all complete and utter nonsense, but had already been spread all over the internet.

Urmstongran

MaizieD

Do people like the EDL worry you as well, Ug or is your concern confined to Muslims?

Of course these mindless ‘rent a mob’ worry me.

Well, why didn't you stick to talking about the EDL thugs , instead of derailing the thread with your anti muslim gossip rhetoric...?

Anti Muslim rhetoric plays a huge part of the fuel that keeps the EDL thugs alight.

They are inextricably linked.

I am just talking on another thread about the way in which mental health can be used to almost defend or deflect from serious crimes. So when sone of us tried to talk about the allegations against Huw Edwards there was a lot of warnings about the damage to his mental health. I understand the differences in those two cases but there is something about the way mental health is used that makes me uneasy. I dont particularly mean by anyone on this thread.
I agree completely about the weirdness of language in relation the girls and women in this case. That too made me uneasy.

So much easier to dismiss crimes as evil than acknowledge mental illnesses

GrannyGravy13

Anti Muslim rhetoric plays a huge part of the fuel that keeps the EDL thugs alight.

They are inextricably linked.

But I don't think Urmstongran is a member of the EDL, so she doesn't need to be kept alight about Muslims.

I was disgusted by the way Farage has used the events.

"Former MP Tobias Ellwood has accused Mr Farage of deliberately inflaming tensions, saying: "I lost my brother to terrorism
.
"To ramp up hatred online by claiming the Southport attack was terrorist related (culminating in riots, a mosque damaged and police injured) is not just reprehensible but needs addressing.

"Otherwise it will happen again.

"Disgusted how a sitting MP deliberately inflames tensions without any justification.

"Farage should delete this tweet."

Sky news
news.sky.com/story/southport-stabbing-latest-number-of-casualties-after-reports-of-stabbing-13186819

BBC now says in its I player feed that 50 policemen and women were injured.

The attacker was, to me, a beserker; maddened beyond control. His passion was running high.Has it been considered he had a grudge against the staff at this social venue and then just lost it?
Wasn't the Dunblane school massacre down to a sacked employee?

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

Anti Muslim rhetoric plays a huge part of the fuel that keeps the EDL thugs alight.

They are inextricably linked.

But I don't think Urmstongran is a member of the EDL, so she doesn't need to be kept alight about Muslims.

Now you are just being rather silly.

Urmstongran was reiterating what is in the news.

Whether or not the allegations about the murderer are true will come to light over the next few weeks.

GrannyGravy13

Anti Muslim rhetoric plays a huge part of the fuel that keeps the EDL thugs alight.

They are inextricably linked.

This, combined with an anarchic hatred of the political establishment. (wiki has details). Hence the anti-police stance.

When the perpetrator is eventually confirmed to be a UK boy of Christian faith with Rwandan background and an extensive history of undertreated mental health issues, I wonder where the EDL will want to go and burn down then? Perhaps the local CAMHS unit?

growstuff

TerriBull

So I cannot recall where I read that he was known to have mh issues. Nevertheless, because of swirling conjecture surrounding the case, it may well be just that a supposition and not conclusiv. Possibly conflated with other attacks, Nottingham for instance and others where the perpetrators have been known to present a threat.

I think it could have been. Some dodgy "news site" originating in America published an article allegedly naming him and claiming he had mental health issues which were known about. All sorts of people picked it up (which is why a thread on GN was deleted). The article also claimed that he had arrived on a boat last year. It was all complete and utter nonsense, but had already been spread all over the internet.

not only that, it was on the BBC news webpage

I hope the EDL will become a proscribed group. (ie on the M6 watch list, if they aren't already).

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

Anti Muslim rhetoric plays a huge part of the fuel that keeps the EDL thugs alight.

They are inextricably linked.

But I don't think Urmstongran is a member of the EDL, so she doesn't need to be kept alight about Muslims.

Now you are just being rather silly.

Urmstongran was reiterating what is in the news.

Whether or not the allegations about the murderer are true will come to light over the next few weeks.

Maybe they are true, although it seems unlikely, especially the bit about him arriving on a boat last year.

However, the point is that at the moment there is absolutely no reason to link the attack the attack with anything Muslim. Discussing Muslims on a thread about thugs hi-jacking a vigil for three murdered girls is totally irrelevant.

MaizieD

Urmstongran

MaizieD

Do people like the EDL worry you as well, Ug or is your concern confined to Muslims?

Of course these mindless ‘rent a mob’ worry me.

Well, why didn't you stick to talking about the EDL thugs , instead of derailing the thread with your anti muslim gossip rhetoric...?

That's quite enough MazieD
Your acting like a child and a bully.

Urmstonegran

I didnt get to read your deleted post, but your not known for deliberately de railing posts.

Btw does anybody have a monopoly on the truth here?

Who nominated you as thread monitor to wrongly accuse MaizieD of acting like a child and a bully?
I did read urmston’s post. We sit at opposite ends politically but have more to unite than divide us. On this occasion I disagreed completely with urmston’s post. I found it inflammatory. There is no evidence so far that this 17 year old was a Muslim whose unspeakable crimes were the result of that.
I agree with others, it hasn’t helped to refer to children, not women and girls. Particularly given Starmer’s focus on crimes against women and girls.
The mis information on line alleging the perpetrator arrived here on a boat should have been addressed by giving some honest information, not simply saying he was born in Cardiff.
I almost said the public are old enough to deal with facts but events in Southport last night say otherwise

I say again who has a monopoly on the truth, you Iam?

People are frustrated at not knowing the truth, the police have to be bland in statements because of law restrictions, I think from europe

This left a vacuum and the brainless yobs filled it with hateful mob behavior

What law restrictions from Europe would they be then?

nanna8

The problem with withholding information is that it makes people think there is something to hide and a certain element will always twist things to fit their own agendas. It is also quite patronising. It might be better if they had said outright that the kid had mental health problems or whatever rather than leave it open to speculation. It is always better to tell the truth. After that loony killer in Sydney they came clean and gave out details and there was no rioting whatsoever, only grief and sympathy for the bereaved.

Please don't use the term loony.. It comes from the french word La Lune, meaning moon.. when people used to think that the moon affected Mental Health