2 boat people Afghans jailed for raping 15 year old girl

But nobody has justified (or excused or tried to explain away, or made little of) the terrible sexual abuse here.

There is no deflection.
We all hate what's happened here as far as I can see.

I don't see the "stupid people" that Allsorts sees.
I think the idea that anyone would seek to justify such heinous acts is ridiculous.
I see condemnation from everyone on this thread.

…and what’s even worse is that women are guilty of that attitude!
Well said TerriBull👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

TerriBull a very concise post, one that I totally agree with.

TerriBull says it all. Thank you.

TerriBull, thanks for your posts- I especially appreciated the recent one (with paragraphs)

I referred to the fact that asylum seekers from Afghanistan were over represented in allegations /convictions of sexual offences against girls and women, in a previous thread. My post was ignored other than by GrannyGravy who commented she’d wondered if anyone would raise this. ( paraphrasing GG hope not misrepresenting)

The latest arrest in Bolton involves a 28 year old man from Afghanistan who has leave to remain. News reports say he met the two fourteen year olds on line.

As Afghanistan is a dangerous place, it’s unsurprising many are granted asylum. The fact is that Afghanistan is desperately dangerous for women and girls. They’re the people needing refuge but of course, they’re confined indoors, not allowed to speak or look out of windows.

I heard Nagga Munchetti ‘s radio five coverage yesterday, of the conviction of the two 17 year old Afghans convicted of rape. One of her interviewees was an Afghan man who runs a charity supporting Afghan asylum seekers. He wasn’t easy to interview, rambled and repeated himself. NM repeatedly asked him about the impact on the Afghan communities of the convictions. He repeatedly referred to the need to educate the community on the British culture because it’s so different and they don’t understand it. NM did eventually state that rape is also a crime in Afghanistan.

It’s a problem isn’t it.

Keir Starmer is trying to get the immigration part of the ECHR changed I remember discussing this years ago on here. It should have been addressed years ago too.

While we allow immigrants to walk freely in our streets then these attacks will go on. Blaming all this on them is wrong as we are welcoming them and of course they will come as it is a better life for them.
There should be no leeway given to any that commit a crime here and they should be deported even if they are sent back to a country that is not safe. They have had their chance and abused it.
I resent being told I don't care about victims. I know what rape can do to women and girls. I have DDs and GDs and fear for them from the dreadful men who perpetrate these heinous acts.
Please put some of the blame where it needs to go.
These situations should never have been allowed to happen.

Iam many thanks for your affirmation. You've often spoken about your career in Social Work and being at the Coalface of dealing with problems such as grooming, I do read your posts with interest and imagine you, and other posters such as Galaxy involved in a similar line of work can give most of us more of a definitive overview of what is often a multi faceted problem.

I do often think for the past 30 or so years we've faced a stone wall of silence and obfuscation. Many young women have been sacrificed to the dual aspects of shoring up some of the more divisive features of multiculturism and political correctness. This pressure cooker of ills has been bubbling away way too long and the, lid has blown and the contents are hitting the ceiling at an alarming rate. We are at a stage where society is kicking off every time another rape/sexual abuse case hit the headlines, not just here but all over Europe, many of those countries adopting far more draconian measures than here. I often in my mind's eye make an analogy between all of this and the sexual abuse carried out for so long by those within the Catholic church and possibly to a lesser extent by those within the CofE. All those abusers white, by the way, as far as I know, to counter balance the argument that these threads only seek to demonise one demographic. The sheer deception and denial that went on from within, was hugely damaging to the church and some of its complicit hierarchy, so much so that it has lost swathes of their potential congregation. People cannot bear cover ups, or worse still "lessons have been learned" and umpteen enquiries as to what is already in the public consciousness. As with the grooming scandal when the abuses within the church it become apparent, moreover that the problem was endemic, the weight of opinion can unfairly at times be skewed to besmirch the entire community, every priest etc., tarnished their critics looking at the structure from within, and in the case of say Pakistanis communities a perception of being inward looking, closed off and secretive, which homogenises them unfairly, no one group of people are rarely all one thing or the other.

Unfortunately, when people don't feel there is decisive action from the top. Perpetrators jailed, deported if they are a foreign national, what they don't want is an army of lawyers via legal aid fighting on their behalf for yet another appeal. They want abusers wherever they emanate to stop hiding behind guises of "I'm above the law because I'm a priest, the child led me on, the child/ren was/were complicit, she was a slut, I'm a family man, I didn't know that wasn't allowed here, my wife, children, cat will suffer, if I'm deported" and so on and so forth.

There are undeniably cultural issues, particularly from Afghanistan, as you say a desperately dangerous place for women and girls. I read some time ago, the words of political commentator Douglas Murray "Not all cultures are equal" and whilst some might find that offensive, I don't, why would we consider a culture equal to our own who seek to marry girl children to old men, subjugate women, treat them as second class citizens, practice genital mutilation, forced marriages, honour killings, stone people for adultery, or because they're gay.

love0c

Dreadful, dreadful, dreadful. I am finding it very difficult to keep hearing about these horrific crimes being committed by people who should not be residing in this country. Anybody even trying to 'justify' as to why they should be here should give their heads a really good wobble. This is my opinion and while ever we have people even remotely attempting to justify them are part of the problem. I wish they would think!!!!!

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Iam64

TerriBull, thanks for your posts- I especially appreciated the recent one (with paragraphs)

I referred to the fact that asylum seekers from Afghanistan were over represented in allegations /convictions of sexual offences against girls and women, in a previous thread. My post was ignored other than by GrannyGravy who commented she’d wondered if anyone would raise this. ( paraphrasing GG hope not misrepresenting)

The latest arrest in Bolton involves a 28 year old man from Afghanistan who has leave to remain. News reports say he met the two fourteen year olds on line.

As Afghanistan is a dangerous place, it’s unsurprising many are granted asylum. The fact is that Afghanistan is desperately dangerous for women and girls. They’re the people needing refuge but of course, they’re confined indoors, not allowed to speak or look out of windows.

I heard Nagga Munchetti ‘s radio five coverage yesterday, of the conviction of the two 17 year old Afghans convicted of rape. One of her interviewees was an Afghan man who runs a charity supporting Afghan asylum seekers. He wasn’t easy to interview, rambled and repeated himself. NM repeatedly asked him about the impact on the Afghan communities of the convictions. He repeatedly referred to the need to educate the community on the British culture because it’s so different and they don’t understand it. NM did eventually state that rape is also a crime in Afghanistan.

It’s a problem isn’t it.

TerriBull, thanks for your posts
Thank you from me too.

Interesting post, Iam64

What a surprise.

Who cares if he didn't come on a small boat, they are illegal and committed the most heinous crime its like excusing them. why should we have this evil pair here? Put them on a plane and then back from whence they came. What a position to be in, no country can just offload criminals on us like this. a country that bred leaving us with the problem, the family should pay all costs involved, they raised them. We do not want them the courts too soft. Rape should be a full life sentence in their own country how do you think this has affected that girl and her family?. Anyone wanting to live here legally have to wait fifteen years before its granted., commit a crime and they are out.

All sorts, if you read the first page you will see we canny just return them from unless they come unless the receiving country gives permission.

We in the UK do not allow a plane to land without permission for those people on it: it’s the same the world over: international law plus would you like people just to be dumped here without our permission .

…..yes it makes returns difficult, we do have agreements with many countries but Afghanistan is not one of them.

Sorry for spelling, on mobile: so it’s to Allsorts and the first sentence reads ‘cannot’

Nobody will just be dumped anywhere.All it should take is a phone call to the foreign office of whatever country, or whoever is in charge, detailing the arrest of the perpetrator and his crime and his name and nationality.Then when the sentence has been served another phone call to let them know that their citizen is on the way there.It’s not rocket science.
Any country that refuses to take back its own criminals has its aid money stopped.

It’s bringing out the less tolerant side in me. I’d prefer these two returned to Afghanistan on conviction. They can serve their sentence (whatever it may be ) at home

Wylow, my point is stop them coming in the first place. Let it be known that if you don't come through correct channels you are returned within 24 hours. Stop the boats in the channel, have a blockade, damage the boats in Calais, but do something, they go through countries to get here because we are a soft touch so make it impossible. Can you imagine how our youngsters feel, no one should he frightened to walk out in daylight. There will such a backlash to this without doubt, people have had enough. Those men in prison after using vulnerable children for years, send them to the country they hail from whose values they uphold rather than ours, why should we keep them?
My loyalty is to our children.

It is good to be less tolerant of violent predatory men though.

We can damage the boats in Calais and are trying to, but the rest just aren't legally possible however gung ho and angry we feel.

Again, I put forward the point: we in the UK would not accept loads of people just dumped on our shores, nor landing at our airports. In fact there would be outrage.

Of course it would have to be done through political channels but I don’t see why not.If people were returned several times they would give up and settle in all the different countries along the way here or be deported by those countries who seem to be more efficient than we are.

Hopefully the immigration part of the ECHR can be amended to make it easier for the government to deal with the criminals who are coming into our country.
As there seems to be a disproportionate amount of crimes committed by Afghan men on girls and women they need to know they will not be allowed out onto the streets if they arrive here.
Unfortunately ECHR would not allow this. It would be against their human rights. The human rights of those they attack and harm don't seem important.

There are not likely to be 'loads of people' who having forced their way into other countries illegally, would be 'dumped on our shores or landed on our airports;'.

British people are not invading foreign countries in their thousands, and those that do enter illegally, are generally returned through the normal channels.

Starmer may mouth platitudes but he is a Human Rights lawyer through and through and will do nothing to interfere with the ECHR. (He may, of course, be looking to resume his former career in the near future).

It is Starmer who is trying to amend the ECHR eazybee.

Oreo

Nobody will just be dumped anywhere.All it should take is a phone call to the foreign office of whatever country, or whoever is in charge, detailing the arrest of the perpetrator and his crime and his name and nationality.Then when the sentence has been served another phone call to let them know that their citizen is on the way there.It’s not rocket science.
Any country that refuses to take back its own criminals has its aid money stopped.

We need to have some leverage as to getting countries to take back their own criminals, if that's withdrawal of aid then so be it. I seem to remember a while ago Australia sent us back some awful person who'd committed umpteen crimes over there. We were expected to take him, presumably because he still had British citizenship, even though he'd barely lived here.

Surely the men who come to this country from societies where women are under the thumb and barely visible should be inculcated in how things are done here something along the lines of:

Women and girls are not property of their menfolk in this country, they go about their life freely, often unaccompanied.

Sometimes they wear clothes that you may consider revealing, that doesn't mean those girls/women are giving out signals they're for sale or you can approach them. Modes of such a dress doesn't mean anything here, it's just fashion.

You do not approach women/girls with suggestive comments, such as asking for sex and you certainly do not touch them.

You will be expected to obey the rules, customs and laws of this country even if they are contrary to what you've been brought up to believe. If you don't like our customs and laws, if you behave inappropriately, this isn't the place for you. If you break the laws, in your carry out any criminal activities, your claim for asylum here will be rejected and you will be deported.

It really doesn't seem that they receive any education in these matters.

in your if you

I agree. These men should not be allowed out until they have been educated, maybe even having to pass an exam.
When I see how my GD and her friends dress to go out, men who have rarely seen a woman who is not covered from head to toe may think they are available for sex.
They need to learn that there will be consequences.