New puppy coming, advice please

When we have had a pup and older dog, we have fed the puppy separately and first, then taken the pup for a wander round the garden whilst the older dog can eat in peace. Any food left in either bowl can then be grazed on without a hungry dog getting precious about its food. As the pup has grown, we have fed them together but not too close, and supervised so they behave. They learn the rules in a short time, and would make eye contact with us for permission to eat whatever was there. Before long, their bowls are side by side, but they do need an eye keeping on them if one starts pinching the other's food. How lovely to have two dogs!

Thank you whenim64. I like the idea of taking the puppy out of the situation while the older one is feeding. Will try what you have suggested. It makes sense to me. Yes, we are lucky but perhaps a little mad!! Our dog is nearly ten and I like to get a puppy while the mature dog is still around so they can learn from them. It worked with our previous dog so I hope it works again x

I have a 2 year old cocker spaniel who is laid back about everything except his food. I can take food out of his bowl while he is eating but if the cat goes near, he goes nuts! I have just got a new cocker puppy and I make sure that puppy sees the older dog eats first to let her know who is top dog. He now allows her to sit beside him as he eats giving the occasional growl! They are getting on really well and she is already joining him in his basket. It's great having two dogs. Enjoy your new puppy x

Yes, when we introduce a new dog we always feed them separately at first, the older dog first, as Grannygey said to show the puppy who is boss dog. Then, gradually feed them together until they are eating in the same room but a couple of yards apart. We also make sure we reinforce the top position if the older dog by greeting it first, putting its lead on first, giving it treats first, etc.
it's very important to establish in puppy's mind that he is the least important in the pack to avoid dominance problems as your other dog ages.

Here's a useful article that our dog trainer shared with us, about how dogs socialise and look for leadership from humans, but not dominance, which has been discounted. He's a dog behaviourist who rehabiltates rescue dogs, and teaches dog owners how to train their dogs to have 'good manners.' Utterly brilliant!

www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/dominance.aspx

Another theory worth considering from the USA. Having once had a dog who grew from a lovely puppy into one who considers himself an 'alpha' male I'm all too aware of management of dominance issues in a way I wasn't before I met this particular dog.

Thank you all so much for your advice. I will read that article with interest whenim64. We are off to see the puppy again next week as she was just five days old when we first saw her and just a little blob!! Will tell you all about her when we have visited. Cant wait

I'm envious, nanapug. We usually had two dogs together, but I'd struggle these days for lots of reasons. That's why I send my lovely dog to doggie daycare/playschool twice a week. It's great for dogs to be in other dogs' company and they get ongoing training, too

Any chance of a photo?

The school of thought that talks about 'alpha' males is not universally agreed upon. Much of it was based on, now discredited, research on zoo based wolf packs. Such packs are not natural as they have often been artificially mixed together from other zoos. A true wolf pack is simply a family with a father figure - hence the other wolves are his pups or 'grand' pups.
An excellent book explaining how dogs see the world is 'In Defence of Dogs'.
Also, I was recommended a puppy raising book by another Gransnetter and it talks a lot of sense by Gwen Baily...Perfect Puppy I think its called.

One 6-month study by the University of Bristol using mainly observations from animals housed by the Dogs' Trust does not convince me.
The difference is we are talking about two different things here I think. Pack animal behaviour as against family animal behaviour.
We also need to take into account genetics and breeding.
It's unlikely that two dogs in a family will consider themselves part of a pack. But when situations exist where dogs go feral and join up in packs then dominance is seen. And aggression. The TV programme of the aftermath in Japan after the tsunami and the nuclear reactor breakdown where families had to abandon their pets showed how quickly (some) dogs can revert to pack behaviour.
Then again some dogs are naturally more assertive and dog breed guides will warn you which ones need experienced handlers/families. Unfortunately too often these are the very animals who end up in the wrong hands and with too many animals housed in one place.
However I would agree that dogs do not need to experience pack behaviour of the rough type, such as hold downs. I abhor the roughness of trainers such as the late Barbara Woodhouse and her yanks and shouts.
That is simply not necessary or applicable to your average family spaniel! Or any dog come to that.
Most of our favourite doggy breeds are biddable and sociable and act as perpetual puppies. It's just that having experienced a dog who was obviously genetically programmed to try to assert himself was quite an experience. He did however turn out to be the best dog I've ever owned, after a lot of good, consistent training. Even then I had to keep him under strict control with other dogs and the window cleaner.
However I don't think the OP is likely to experience any such difficulties ns we wish her every joy of her new puppy.

PS Neutering is essential, especially in males.

Dogs I mean.

Or then again .....

All I know is that when we took on our 'Poppy' from Dogs Trust and asked about training they said, we do not really recommended any particular system but we do say do not have anything to do the César Millan!

ho ho ho!

Poppy from Dogs' Trust sounds a world removed from Tyson from Dogs' Pound!!
I'm guessing she's not a Rottweiler?

Nope Aka....she is an odd mix.....Dogs Trust think she is probably an attempt at a designer mix that does not work (Some have become very fashionable and expensive) She is half Springer ....so bouncy and loves her runs.....and the other half is Viszla...which is a Hungarian gun dog breed which can be a bit nervy and sensitive.
So she is a handful but we could offer her a good life in the middle of countryside where she can run and 'hunt' to her hearts delight! And when she's in the mood she is a real Daddy's girl and loves her cuddles.

Sounds gorgeous

I don't think I can add much to the advice which has been given.
The only thing I can say your dog will be the best dog in the world but only equal to the other dogs you have had / have.

Frank

Our new pup has been with us for two weeks now and totally taken over our lives! It's amazing how quickly he is growing and how fast he learns. He already comes when called (might not be so good in adolescence!), sits on command and brings his soft ball back. Such a clever boy! Still another three weeks to wait before all his jabs are completed and he can properly go out, but we can now go to the puppy party at the vets and visit nice, well brought up dogs. Grandchildren here next week for several days, so that will be an interesting challenge for us all.

Highly recommend a book called The Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey. My current bible.

How exciting nanapug. A collie lab mix sounds like it could be very interesting. My current dogs are poodle crosses - one lab/standard but 5th generation since there was a pedigree, and the other show type spaniel/miniature poodle. The spaniel cross is now 16 months and his attentive older and bigger dog companion is 4. Good advice above about early feeding, and gradually bringing the two together. Our younger dog is a much more dominant swaggering male, than his gentle, kind and very protective pal. I'm so glad we kept to giving her first treat/lead on/ball to retrieve etc as the younger dog would definitely like to assume the role of head of the family. I feel a bit sorry for Ceasar Milan, as it seems to have been open season on him for a few years now. I don't go for the dominance theory either, and never saw him as a dog whisperer in the way that Monty Roberts is a true horse whisperer. Still, Ceasar did get lots people to understand that dogs need exercise and to respond to their handlers, rather than rule the house. Be good to hear how your pup and older dog learn to love each other. there is no doubt in my mind that our two dogs have great affection for each other

I've got Cesar Millan's books and a DVD and there is a lot of sense in them. His style of training has evolved over the years and his use of well-mannered dogs to train the ones that need rehabilitation is sound. He used electronic collars on seriously out of control dogs, particular American Pit Bulls that were unmanageable, to try to prevent them being euthanased, and assumptions were made that he used this technique routinely. He's done some great work to promote resposibe dog ownership.

Here we go When - I agree with you again. As I said, I feel Ceasar has been unfairly criticised by some of the 'positive' dog trainers. One of the families he helped during a tour of Britain a couple of years ago are close friends. They had a spaniel puppy who refused to get into the back of their estate car. They said Ceasar spent a whole day with them, their children and 3 dogs and his advice about the spaniel was spot on. They also said he was fun to have around, worked very hard and was totally appropriate with their dogs, and their children. The issue about e-collars continues to cause lots of polarised discussions. I am one of the group who believe there is a place for them. The programme where Ceasar used an e-collar on his pit bull to discourage the dog's continued interest in snakes was very interesting. I agree that Ceasar's work has developed over the years. Just like the work of psychologists etc really. Nanapug, let us know how your lab/collie fits into your family. My grandpa had a spaniel/lab cross when we were children. He was a delight, and the family view was that "first cross" dogs were the best, came without the health problems so many pedigrees have, and usually a relaxed personality. Collie's are such clever dogs, but fortunately seem eager to please and labs are also clever - so hopefully you'll get the best of both breeds......

I have loved reading all your comments, thanks so much. We are very excited. Funnily enough I happened to choose The Perfect Puppy MrsJamJam purely because it seemed so practical and readable so I am glad I chose well. I have enjoyed reading it very much. Will try to post pics when we get her in August. At least at that time of year she can spend lots of time in the garden. We got our previous dog in November and that wasn't so good.
I have another question. Some books say you should get up in the night to put new puppies out to wee. We didn't with our present dog. What do people think?