'Viewpoint' on ITV and Noel Clarke

Well it's only on ITVHub for the rest of today and then it disappears, could it possibly be that they have a commercial deal with another provider and are hoping people will pay to find out whodunnit?

That would be a PR disaster unless Clarke is found innocent of all charges, which is highly unlikely, surely?

The deal would already have been done Doodledag. They are usually finalised in pre or post production, it's the numbers that would watch it that matter. It would have gone to other providers anyway.

The last episode should have been shown as I feel sorry for the rest of the cast as it is not their fault. He need to be brought to task, if these stories are true. But over 20 women saying about him then he must be guilty. I feel so sorry for his wife and family.

trisher

The deal would already have been done Doodledag. They are usually finalised in pre or post production, it's the numbers that would watch it that matter. It would have gone to other providers anyway.

Are you saying that the pulling of the last episode was set up before the news broke, in order to make money for ITV?

No the deal with the other providers would have been done pre production or post production before anything was shown, however there could be a clause relating to viewing figures in the deal which could substantially benefit ITV if the last episode wasn't shown. It's all hypothetical of course.

Galaxy

A society that does not challenge this behaviour is also a dangerous one. The victims commissioner has recently described the system for prosecuting rape as not fit for purpose, only 1.5 % of cases that went to court produced a charge. In other words rape is pretty much legal. Most of this behaviour wouldnt even meet the criteria for a court case, woman are just expected to tolerate it.
I think we need to be calling out this behaviour immediately, I think some workplaces can create a culture which is toxic, and from some of the information available it seems that has been the case.

This.
Many of us worked in toxic work environments, offices, factories, engineering works were awful places for young women in the 60’s in my experience. Reading the comments from women who worked with NC reminded me of the harassment, casual touching of breasts and bottoms by men. Complaints to the managers were universally met by ‘oh he means no harm, ‘that’s just his way ‘
I read his female costar in Viewpoint has expressed solidarity with the complainants.

The last episode is on itvhub until midnight tonight. (2nd May). It’s the best episode by far if you have watched it so far.

I remember when I was 15/16 working in a local pub waitressing and the manager, a bloke in his 50s, used to rub up against me on purpose so I could feel his private parts on butt cheeks
Just one story of many
In those days you wouldn't tell your Mother either, mine always though everything was MY fault.

I was inclined to the “innocent till proven guilty” viewpoint for about 5 minutes until I read the Guardian article. Plenty of evidence of abusive behaviour has been seen, and the accusations aren’t all from anonymous victims by any means. There is no way Clarke could have continued working in the circumstances. And there are colleagues and friends of his who should hang their heads in shame for going along with the bullying and abuse and not speaking up in defence of these women.

I can see why ITV couldn’t broadcast episode 5 of Viewpoint as scheduled, on the day the news broke, but do think that in fairness to the rest of the cast and crew and their viewers it should be shown at some stage. We’ve watched it on the hub today, but not everyone has that option and, as has been pointed out, some people need to have the option of subtitles.

JaneJudge that sounds horrible didn't you make him aware that was unacceptable behaviour?
I grew up with brothers and cousins and the older ones taught us that we must keep safe and nobody had a right to touch our bodies.
I was out once with two friends and we thought we were so clever because a group of hells angels were showing us attention. We were about 14 and everything was alright and then one of them put his hand on my boobie without any hesitation I smacked him across the face and all the other guys started laughing at him. Myself and my friends just walked away , no one should do that to someone and think it is appropriate.

When I use the Hub on my iPad or IPhone I can get subtitles.

No I didn't tell anyone. My Father was abusive though so I suspect I had just accepted it was normal? Luckily I married someone very nice when I was young, which I think has helped me no end with appropriate behaviour but it has taken a long time iykwim

I am not implying I was saved 'by a man' btw just that meeting him and having a stable relationship has shaped my views and attitudes of boundaries in a more positive manner. I am sure I have made his life more positive as well ;)

I am sometimes a bit overly confident (to JaneJudge) ; at times
I forget that we are all individuals and not everyone had brothers and cousins like I did to teach us a bit about how to keep safe I know that should be a job for parents but mine never had conversations like that with me.

It is sad that your father was abusive so telling anyone about what happened would have been difficult.
On a positive level it sounds like you met a kind man that has given you a stable relationship and so you have been able to change your views and attitudes of boundaries so that is a win win situation for you.

Surely the main point is that men need to be taught how to behave, rather than suggesting brothers and cousins need to teach girls how to keep themselves safe
JaneJudge, I suspect most women have had experiences similar to yours. Disgusting isn’t it

It is, Iam, and it's high time the perpetrators were blamed, instead of it being assumed that their actions are the fault of 'the system' which allowed it, or that they are unfortunate victims of malicious accusations.

Women shouldn't need to limit their behaviour to keep themselves safe, and if inappropriate behaviour has taken place, they should feel able to tell others without fearing that they will be blamed. Like most women, I experienced routine casual episodes of inappropriate behaviour in the 60s, but I never told my mother, as my freedom was restricted enough as it was, and it would have been restricted further if she had known.

My mother was a believer in women having responsibility for not encouraging 'men's urges', rather than in men being taught/made to behave appropriately. I thought that that sort of attitude had died out, but judging by many responses on this thread it would seem not.

But the "system" is irrevocably involved in the way women are treated and is at the core of why that treatment continues. So an industry dominated by men uses women to shoot sex scenes and requires them to strip naked to even be considered for roles. Not surprisingly some of the men in that industry take things further. Of course it's wrong, but to imagine there is only one man doing this is not only naive it's dangerous. Basically what will happen as long as these practices are accepted is that occasional men will be denounced but the entrenched abuse will carry on.

I did think it was an awful production, centred entirely on him and totally unbelievable.

many women could not risk to slap a man as they then might get a fist in the face or worse.
so women have to survive, by keeping their heads down, scurrying away, or seeming to laugh at something humiliating, as being alive humiliated is preferable to being laid out for asserting one's rights.
it is a tricky balance. one women have to make every day.

IAM 64, DoodleDog, and WellBeck : I have noted that many of my comments on this thread have been met with an attitude
of myself making the wrong comments and that I am in the wrong.
I have no apologies to make about my life to any of you and the fact I had a good family support network where we were given information about keeping safe is the ultimate you can arm a young women with. The main thing is always tell someone about any episodes concerning any sexual exploitation and not stay quiet about it. Women do not have to scurry away and let themselves be humiliated and wear the submission badge and be walked over by men. If that makes me a strong woman then I embrace that even though I know men still make sexual innuendo to me even at my age but I deal with it.

In regard of Noel Clarke much of this judgement is guilty by social media (yes I know it was also in the Daily Mail) but much of it has been across the media.
The police are there to listen and make decisions in what actions they will take against any allegation of criminal activity. My thoughts about some of these women who have said they did not want to take police action at the time as they felt confused has not helped the matter. Many of the women should have gone to management and then reported incidents to the police, even if it meant they lost a part in a role in a film, what is more important at least they save themselves from any further attack.
I firmly believe that women and young girls have every right to live safely and be protected from any harm by another human being.
If Noel Clarke has done the things he is being accused of then let the police assess all information and decide what charges could be made against him.
It is not right to judge, find him guilty and make assumptions without the full evidence in front of us.

I have read his own words and am able to judge him as a misogynist.
Your faith in the criminal justice service to provide help for these women is naive.

trisher

I did think it was an awful production, centred entirely on him and totally unbelievable.

Spot on

Galaxy : The criminal Justice service is there for women who have been treated as they are reporting they have been.
At the first instance of these assaults/bullying/harassment they needed to report it immediately and go through the correct procedures. If the police have a case to build then they will, I reserve any judgement on Noel Clarke and really know little about him only in films and drama. He made spectacular contributions to the television and acting services hence he was awarded the highest award at the Baftas. Hate is now the full scale attitude for him out there
strange how things turn themselves around in about three weeks.

‘An attitude’, do you mean that myself, doodledog and well beck disagree with you 3nanny6? I can only respond for myself, yes i disagree and set out my reasons earlier.
‘An attitude’ - what exactly do you mean